Communities?

Ippoippo · Post by **Ippoippo** » 03 Aug 2005, 03:41

He's one for you. I'm currently resident in Japan. Looking to move away from here, because things are going to get well nasty I fear, with PO.
My ideal scenario would be to move to NZ. Sure, there are aspects of NZ which are not so good, such as poor public transport. However, in the scenario if the SHTF REALLY, REALLY BIG TIME, then NZ sounds to be a good place to be. Low population density, less likely to get involved in a resource war, good food growing climate etc. HOWEVER, there are a number of issues. For example, if the global economy will go pear-shaped and I could lose by job before I got perm. residence status.

So, despite the fact that the UK has the potential to go pear-shaped in a big way, it's going to be less pear-shaped than Japan and thus me and wife will probs move back (though, her not fully grasping PO means she's doing it more for 'lifestyle' reasons).
One thing is that I do not own a home here in Japan or back in the UK (home country for me). Therefore, I would end up getting myself into debt if I brought a decent size home with land. Bad thing. I also certainly could not afford to buy a large bit of farmland.

OK, after some rambling, I'll get to the point. For people like us who start off with limited amounts of money and assets, living in some kind of community setup sounds good. I started digging around for those set up in the UK. This is when I become rather despondant. Without meaning to be rude, but it seems most of the communities I've seen are just a bunch of pot-head, spiritualistic hippies

Now, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with that per-say. The issue is me and my wife just wouldn't fit in with those people.
I'm approaching sustanable living from a logical, scientifc viewpoint as it were, as opposed to a spiritual one. So, although the end goal is the same in some ways, I could not imagine living with people like that.

So, the question is... are there any communities set up (or being setup) where (how can I say), less-spiritual-type people are? A couple of places in NZ sounded like they had potential. But NZ may not be feasible in the next year or so

EDIT: Fixed some really bad typo's. Living here just a year, and already forgetting how to speak English!

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 03 Aug 2005, 09:23

Good question and point well made GavinT. I would be of the same view, of approaching things from a scientific perspective. Is this more along the lines of permaculture, organic, environmental communities?

Unfortunately, I think we are still at the very early days in this arena. Have you thought of living in a remotish area of say N England or Wales where land is more reasonably priced and you could get one of these log cabins that one sees increasingly about? I think they come in kit form and you can put them up yourself or pay extra to have them pre-built or built on-site for you. Just a thought....

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 03 Aug 2005, 11:38

Rent then squat. There is a potential for the housing bubble to burst in a big way along with large scale repossessions. This could lead to the building societies going bust and so leading to abandoned houses. People will probably live more to a household due to increasing costs and so with our level or decreasing population there is a good chance these abandoned houses will stay that way. So pick one (preferably one that is well insulated)

It doesn't necessarily need land. Partly because there will be other jobs other than growing, partly because you can grow things on other people's land, allotments, parks and roundabouts.

In terms of community, I think you have found it here. It?s just a bit distributed at the moment but I'm sure it will get closer over time.

I've tried to get my friends interested in PO and my head has got sore from hitting it against a wall. I've now decided it might be easier to get interested people to become my friends. I hope something works as my community of one may not get all that far otherwise.

PowerswitchClive · Post by **PowerswitchClive** » 03 Aug 2005, 14:18

Excellent point about renting. It really is unwise to buy, unless you can put down most (if not all) of the value of the property (my opinion only ) Owning your own property of course, allows you to modify it in any which way you want, where as this is not possible if you rent.
Have you thought about Ireland? Has very low population density, no visa problems for you and the southern counties of Eire has excellent farmland and Northern Ireland is very cheap to buy or rent! Oh and unlike NZ no earthquakes to trash your future property investment
Any small or smallish town, surrounded by farmland would be a good start... With the potential for shortages of food and goods and civil unrest over time as this plays out, I would stay clear of the big UK cities.

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 03 Aug 2005, 14:23

Except that Ireland is very dependent on petroleum/gas imports and most is controlled by a big tap from GB. I doubt whether GB government will keep the poor people of Ireland warm whilst its industry suffers and its people go cold.

PowerswitchClive · Post by **PowerswitchClive** » 03 Aug 2005, 14:25

I've now decided it might be easier to get interested people to become my friends. I hope something works as my community of one may not get all that far otherwise.

one new friend here......

Personally I think all you guys and girls currently living in London, should sell up / move to Southend. Its a really nice small town, with ample surrounding farmland and farms and an excellent train link into London (50mins - 40miles) so we can still continue to work in London, whilst times are good. We could set up a community here

Also it means I don't have to move LOL

PowerswitchClive · Post by **PowerswitchClive** » 03 Aug 2005, 14:35

Except that Ireland is very dependent on petroleum/gas imports

This is true of any developed country. Ireland only has 3 big ish cities and except for Dublin, these are small compared to UK cities. Gas central heating is a new development in the cities and towns only. Many of the rural communites and villages still use peat or wood. I used to live there.... Ireland is about the only EU country that can say with confidence that it can feed its 3million population with much less fossil inputs and hard work. Its economic boom has been a recent thing and in many ways it is still a poor country and its people have more realistic expectations.

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 03 Aug 2005, 15:17

PowerswitchClive wrote:move to Southend. Its a really nice small town,

Sorry Clive, but you cannot be serious.

Post by **clv101** » 03 Aug 2005, 17:48

Ireland's electricity supply is a problem, they are already over 50% reliant on natural gas and are talking about switching Moneypoint (their large coal plant) to gas. In their favour is a low population and excellent wind and wave potential. They just need to get a move on developing alternatives!

Regarding agriculture I think I'm correct in saying they grow very little cereals, fruit and veg. The industry is mainly livestock. Not sure how quickly this could be changed or how suitable Ireland is for planting.

grinu · Post by **grinu** » 03 Aug 2005, 22:07

Thing about Ireland is that the population is currently much lower than it was in the 1840's.

In 1841 it had a population of 8.2million, which dropped to 4.4million by 1911. This was mainty as a result of the potato famine 1845-1847, troubles and the mass emmigration that resulted.

Apparently the main problem with the potato famine was not lack of food, but lack of access to food - the english were comandeering it for themselves (my girlfriend's Irish and they studied it at school).

Current population of Ireland is 3.7million, and NI 1.6million. Total of 5.3million. I would've thought Ireland is in a much better position than the UK.

Lots of rainfall, half of population is in Dublin. Lots of open countryside (albeit it very reliant on car). Good strong communities. Farming is a major component of the economy. Mountains = fresh water. West coast has huge expanse of ocean for fishing (which may be an advantage if it gets to the stage where boats rely on wind and rowing - who else is going to be fishing in those waters?). The list goes on - that's where we're going in a couple of yrs.

Hope I haven't gone too off topic.

PowerswitchClive · Post by **PowerswitchClive** » 03 Aug 2005, 23:24

PowerswitchClive wrote:
move to Southend. Its a really nice small town,

Sorry Clive, but you cannot be serious.

hehe I was joking..... but now you mention it.....

During the potato famine, Ireland was forced, by the British to export all of its grain production to England. Even when the masses were staving the British did little more than nothing.

SherryMayo · Post by **SherryMayo** » 04 Aug 2005, 00:48

As well as being a lesson in the evils of colonialism etc, the potato famine is also a sharp lesson in the deficiencies of monoculture.

The potato was the staple food of the poor and in the main a single variety "lumper" was grown . Because the poor had all their eggs in one basket the arrival of the potato blight was devastating. One of the reason heritage varieties of veggies/fruit trees need to be maintained is because the genes for resistance to different diseases are lurking in that wider gene-pool (and Golden Delicious taste crap too.)

http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/r ... ure2.shtml

Ippoippo · Post by **Ippoippo** » 04 Aug 2005, 02:53

Thanks for the replies folks.

Regarding NZ, forget they had earthquakes too. Mind you, I think they are minor compared to the potential destruction that could occur in my current part of the world

Wales would be a good option for me (something I'm considering). I'm Welsh anyway, so I know that part of the world

In the scenario of slow breakdown, rather than quick breakdown, living in Wales would mean I could then help parents and my side of the family possibly. (With my wifes side of the family, somehow got to convince the wife to get her parents, brothers family etc to move away from Tokyo and get back to Yamaguchi is which much more countryside-ish).
Visa for my wife would not be such an issue, as she could get in on a spouse visa.

Ireland is another option. Wife saw some stuff about Cork on TV and was intrigued by it. Sure, Ireland is pretty dependant on oil/gas... but then so is the UK, New Zealand etc etc.
OK you lot, who's coming to Ireland with me?!?!

Blue Peter · Post by **Blue Peter** » 04 Aug 2005, 15:40

GavinT wrote:Ireland is another option. Wife saw some stuff about Cork on TV and was intrigued by it. Sure, Ireland is pretty dependant on oil/gas... but then so is the UK, New Zealand etc etc.
OK you lot, who's coming to Ireland with me?!?!

However, the island of Ireland as a whole also has a lot of people with a lot of weapons. If GB became preoccupied with other matters, might there be a push to unite the North with the South, with all that that might entail?

Peter.

ron · Post by **ron** » 04 Aug 2005, 20:29

Regarding New Zealand. I'd guess 20 million Australians also have that idea. And don't they already have the automatic visa free right (at the moment) to live there? (I might be wrong).

Due to huge distances and other factors, life in Aus is probably more reliant on fossil fuels than UK/Europe. Every city in Australia is at a severe state with water right now, on the bounds of critical. No one can say for sure if it's a natural cycle or down to global warming and how long it's going to last.

I know it's 3hrs in a jet from Australia to New Zealand, but I guess people in dried up, fuel resource depleted cities in Australia will be having the same thoughts about New Zealand as everyone else.