PowerSwitch

Ive been talking to people today about global warming and all the scientific evidence doesnt seem to get anywhere , photos of shrinking glaciers dont get anywhere, so what do they need before they believe its happening or that they personally need to take action .

for global warming if say you have new york under water would that wake people up , whatabout a dust bowl leading to a new sahara in the states .

what about peak oil what price would oil need to reach , would we need rationing or closed pumps what ?

I think americans seem more in denial, will there be a point where they make big changes or will they keep in denial until there is no oil and the earth looks like venus

I'm not sure there is any evidence to make people change their minds. People still live in San Francisco knowing that one day an earthquake will flatten it, people still live right underneath high dams and on the slopes of volcanoes. Also, people still smoke, persist with poor diet, don't exercise etc with the knowledge that it will most likely lead to a premature death and lower quality of life.

Is inaction on climate change in the face of the evidence really any different to the above?

P.S. Good to meet you last night!

God alone knows. Perhaps everyone will stay in self denial until THEY suddenly become one of the new poor - and thus invisible and powerless.

I worked in a large factory once where thousands were laid off over a period of a week or so. The security guards came past every few minutes and presented a brown envelope to the next victim who had 2 minutes to clear their desk before being led away ... to obscurity & invisibility. The sacked people were never seen again ... they were too ashamed and maybe too broke to socialise after they left and we we too embarrassed and/or nervous socialising with the "rejects".

This process could happen with PO / GW too ... foreclosures & layoffs could occur on a regular basis ... but as long as WE stay in work, well, it's business as usual.

This incremental process might actually work "well" ... key technical staff would remain to run the water & power systems for the rich and powerful, but the middle managers and other "dead wood" could simply be cast aside one-by-one.

At the end we would end up with a core support infrastructure, and the rich & powerful ... plus ghettos of the New Poor.

Nice.

(The media would of course need to be controlled, so that The Masses never realise what their ultimate fate would be ... or perhaps simple self-delusion will be enough to ensure that people don't protest ... until it's too late and THEY are on the scrap heap: "Don't worry Dear, my job is safe, they won't sack ME. The world always needs telephone sanitisers.")

I agree with Dennis Meadows, one of the authors of 'The Limits To Growth - 30 Year Update'.

To quote the book (Authors preface pp xvi):

'He believes actions will ultimately be taken to avoid the worst possibilities for a global collapse. He expects that the world will eventually choose a relativley sustainable future, but only after severe global crises force belated action. And the results secured after a long delay will be much less attractive than those that could have been attained through earlier action.'

I'd make the most of the time that you have at hand to make things as easy for yourself as possible before TSHTF.

Maybe a realistic simulation might engage some people with the issue. Such a thing might even appear in Le Monde.

writerguy wrote:Maybe a realistic simulation might engage some people with the issue. Such a thing might even appear in Le Monde.

Funny thing is, your pretend gasoline price is still only $6.18. Dont make me laugh. Our prices are already way over $8. And your gasoline is too high quality. A refiner in Europe only wants to sell to africa these days. They aren't so choosy about sulfur and pollution and the margins are much better as a result. Back in the real world, gasoline cracks prices in the US were over $37/barrel yesterday. God help you if a hurricane comes in. The real price might go up faster than the simulation...

Tess wrote:

writerguy wrote:Maybe a realistic simulation might engage some people with the issue. Such a thing might even appear in Le Monde.

Funny thing is, your pretend gasoline price is still only $6.18. Dont make me laugh. Our prices are already way over $8. And your gasoline is too high quality. A refiner in Europe only wants to sell to africa these days. They aren't so choosy about sulfur and pollution and the margins are much better as a result. Back in the real world, gasoline cracks prices in the US were over $37/barrel yesterday. God help you if a hurricane comes in. The real price might go up faster than the simulation...

A hurricane did come in. And gas prices are now over $7. But I'll willingly concede the point - reality could surpass the alternate reality at any time.