PowerSwitch

Almost every Peak Oil web site has an "Invest in Gold" crowd.

As a neutral (?) observer I get the distinct feeling that the fans of gold regard it as a sure-fire one-stop ticket to riches and/or a wonderful afterlife. The whole "invest in gold" thing has the feel of a cult or religon ... or scam.

You can't eat gold, it's very hard to trade, assay or price on the street, it's unsafe to store at home, it's hard to split into currency equivalent chunks.

Can anyone give me a UK crisis scenario where owning gold would make a difference?

When would ?1000 be more wisely invested in gold than in say home insulation, solar cells, retraining or setting up a business so you can work near home, a more efficent car or a multi-fuel stove?

If you ARE about to invest ?1000 in gold, when should you in fact clear your debts or invest in say a stash of razor blades or vitamin tablets, or in oil/gas shares or solar cell shares or perhaps in platinum or copper or some other useful commodity?

PS Any reply which mentions the term "fiat currency" will be consigned immediately to my "Internet nutter" bin!

Gotta say, it makes no sense to me either!

I'll second that. Gold like every other material or property has no real intrinsic value, other than what people are prepared to pay for it on the day.

I've often thought the same, Vortex - there are so many more worthwhile things to be spending money on than gold. Maybe the "invest in gold" crowd are already sooo rich and sooooo well prepared for PO that investing in gold is the only game left for them to play.

People will buy gold while the believe that the present financial system will remain intact. While that happens, the value of gold will remain high. But if we get down to basic survival, nobody will be able to swap a bar of gold for a bag of food or a cart horse. So gold is really a short-term investment. Knowledge, skills and resources are a better long-term investment.

Gold and silver have been stores of wealth for thousands of years. If you disregard gold with the knowledge of up and coming PO and financial turbluence you do so to your detriment.
Gold has a place in every diversified porfolio and as inflation increases the ratios of gold in lots of investors pots will increase as time goes by. Of course it has no function that's not the issue, it is store of wealth. Why? It's rare, beautiful, easily worked extrordinarly heavy, portable and difficult to fake and historically it is a protection from inflation, people want it for those reasons.
When to sell gold is the real issue. This is when other asset classes look cheap in comparison, land and property are the obvious choices but at the moment these seem totally overpriced.
For now the future for gold, oil and soft commodities are looking good because when adjusted for inflation they are quite cheap in a historical context but DYOR.

For my own part when people talk about survival skills or buying loads of razor blades I usually put them down as an 'internet nutter'.

Gold doesn't rust either. I would hate to have a garden shed full of razor blades with a leak.

Gold has a place in every diversified porfolio

Of course it has ... IF you have enough spare loot to HAVE a varied portfolio!

However many web sites and posters seem to treat gold with a religious fervour. They track and endlessly discuss every minor change in its price. Well, everyone needs a hobby I suppose!

For my part, with my few ?1000s I'm buying some land ... assuming the solicitors find no problems.

We'll be able to grow plants, and raise goats on that land.
In very bad times it may have a very important role in our lives.
At the very minimum we'll be able to have picnics there on sunny days.
I might even bury a cache of razor blades (securely protected against moisture).

I'm sure the whole family are going to have a lot of fun .. whilst getting cold and muddy and plenty of fresh air.

I could of course buy a few gold coins and gloat over them in front of the gas fire, with the curtains closed ... or more likely gloat over a PAPER CERTIFICATE stating that I REALLY do own some gold held somewhere else by some nice company.

Must dash ... need to call the solicitors to cancel our offer on the land ... how could I have been so misguided ...

If things get that bad that you need some gold to survive then jsut go take what you want from the banks in a riot rofl. There is only one thing that has proved PROOOOOOOOVED to be the only assest through history for the common man and that is the common man standing next to him! If you want to invest then invest in making as many good friends and learn how to win people over as best you can - that will serve you better than any amount of gold, money, multi-fuel burner, solar panel, house, car or fecking plasma 65 inch TV hooked up to a killer xbox 360 (ok ok maybe not the plasma and xbox lol) because every assest other than each of us being there for each other can be taken away from us by those in power. Define ownership They can not, even though they try, take our natural will to help each other away from us. They can and have eroded it, but it can never be removed - fact humans are gregarious end of - even if its us and them, that gang or this gang, that race or this race, rich or poor etc we all have a strong natural drive to be part of a group and this is how we have survived for so long

If you want to survive you best become a master with people - Vortex got his ideas which I like, but if he gets all what he wants and the shit really hit the fan then he's best be good at sharing or he may not get to keep what he got etc. Likewise gold or any other precious metal is only any good if you have a group that needs it. The key element is everything in our lives and any preparations for times of hardship is your people skills and the strong bonds with the people around you - you cant keep the land or the gold if the people want it

We'll be able to grow plants, and raise goats on that land.

The two are mutually exclusive, Vortex, unless you have a very secure shed or fencing (at least 1.5m high) to keep the goats out of the vegetable garden. They're worst than muntjaks for finding a way in.

If you want to invest then invest in making as many good friends and learn how to win people over as best you can

Bribe them with gold??? Oh no, MisterE, you said good friends!!

Muwhahahaha Kenneal I like it

alternative-energy wrote:For my own part when people talk about survival skills or buying loads of razor blades I usually put them down as an 'internet nutter'.

Absolutely! Stocking razor blades is really, really stupid. They go dull, and then what? A straight razor and a strop on the other hand, will last a lifetime!

We have had this discussion previously:

http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... light=gold

http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... light=gold

One thread is lost since some hacker attack in 2005, but in short, I think it is outright immoral to promote gold for anything than dental work!

How come?

Does anyone know what kind of damage modern gold mining do to nature? Mercury leaching is still used in poor countries and cyanide heap leaching is the standard industrial method. Humongous amounts of energy is used to mine, crush and roast the ore before leaching. To what ends? The freakin' metal is almost useless!

Also, all stories told from the Soviet collapse, Cuba and Argentina gives a tiny, tiny, almost negligible role for gold.

he's best be good at sharing

no, no, no ... I'm good at SHOOTING !

Nobody is going to get my razor blades!

If you want to invest then invest in making as many good friends

Well you can't argue with that wisdom... I have a large allotment with a nearby friend and and benefits to both of our families are enormous. As a 17 year old man I went to agricultural college for 2 years and the life skills I learnt there have been invaluable.

However what we are really talking about is total security. It has dawned on me fairly recently that taming the effect that inflation has on you will be the wisest thing you can ever do. If vortex gets it together with his goats and veg then he will have conquered the inflation demon.( If he doesn't over extend his mortgage and can afford his repayments on the razor blades)
Other people who have different skills will approach it in a different way. Financially interested people will buy high dividend shares and assets gold being one of then. However as i said before, diversity is the key.
Having like minded friends, using as much free resources as possible, water, solar, wood, growing what you can and getting as fit as possible to reduce medical bills all count. Result emancipation.
If you also have a strong financial foundation then you can weather just about anything expect a total breakdown in society.
MacG does make a good point, Gold is not a good ethical choice, but if you are doing all you can do to live a low carbon self reliant life with a minimum impact then I guess a little naughtiness can be forgiven... for the sake of your own security...I hope.