Here is a thought experiment.
Let's imagine that the Earth's geology was slightly different, with significantly fewer fossil fuels (all of them) available. In our imaginary world peak oil happened in the 1980s, around the same time as climate change was first being understood. In such a world the transition away from fossil fuels would not have been a political choice, because it would have been forced upon us by physical reality. The question is "what happens next?"
Do you think it is that civilisation would now be facing collapse due to our inability to imagine a world without fossil fuels? Or would the undeniability of our need to adapt have forced us to find ways to keep civilisation going (at least for a while)?
This is intended as a completely open question. What is your best guess of the history of the world from 1980 in a world where fossil fuels ran out before they could cause climate change bad enough to bring down civilisation?
What if peak oil had happened in the 1980s?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
- UndercoverElephant
- Posts: 13496
- Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
- Location: UK
What if peak oil had happened in the 1980s?
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
Re: What if peak oil had happened in the 1980s?
In 1980
1. GLobal population was a lot lower. Less than 5B.
2. Coal was (and is) still plentiful worldwide.
3. Natural Gas was a relatively marginal energy source. Can we assume that NG also peaks?
4. Renewable energy technology was decades away from the ROI we have today.
5. The level of environmental degradation of soil and overfishing and deforestation of the rainforests etc. was much lower
6. Scientific understanding of the long term impact of CO2 emissions was much less developed,
7. Russian military was enormous and still relatively state of the art.
8. Our reliance on digital technology was much, much lower.
Bottom line -
1 we would see a massive ramp up of coal, both for electricity production and coal to liquids to replace oil
2. Nuclear would be much more widely expanded, probably leading to more accidents. Technologies like fast breeder would be rolled out,
leading to are more weapons grade materials and far more hard to store or decommision nuclear waste.
3. Famine and war in the third world would be much more widespread
4. A major war in the middle east would be inevitable as the major powers become desperate for declining oil supplies.
5. Would we have had nuclear war? With Reagan in the whitehouse and old style leadership in the USSR, quite likely. Game over. I was having panic attacks at that time at the prospect of nuclear war as it was.
6. If nuclear winter did not totally destroy the global climate, the human survivors would inherit a world with a lot more remaining natural resources and biodiversity than we have today.
7. If we avoided nuclear war, Western civilisation would have declined rapidly, widespread civil war, gangsterism and and general collapse by now.
1. GLobal population was a lot lower. Less than 5B.
2. Coal was (and is) still plentiful worldwide.
3. Natural Gas was a relatively marginal energy source. Can we assume that NG also peaks?
4. Renewable energy technology was decades away from the ROI we have today.
5. The level of environmental degradation of soil and overfishing and deforestation of the rainforests etc. was much lower
6. Scientific understanding of the long term impact of CO2 emissions was much less developed,
7. Russian military was enormous and still relatively state of the art.
8. Our reliance on digital technology was much, much lower.
Bottom line -
1 we would see a massive ramp up of coal, both for electricity production and coal to liquids to replace oil
2. Nuclear would be much more widely expanded, probably leading to more accidents. Technologies like fast breeder would be rolled out,
leading to are more weapons grade materials and far more hard to store or decommision nuclear waste.
3. Famine and war in the third world would be much more widespread
4. A major war in the middle east would be inevitable as the major powers become desperate for declining oil supplies.
5. Would we have had nuclear war? With Reagan in the whitehouse and old style leadership in the USSR, quite likely. Game over. I was having panic attacks at that time at the prospect of nuclear war as it was.
6. If nuclear winter did not totally destroy the global climate, the human survivors would inherit a world with a lot more remaining natural resources and biodiversity than we have today.
7. If we avoided nuclear war, Western civilisation would have declined rapidly, widespread civil war, gangsterism and and general collapse by now.
- BritDownUnder
- Posts: 2479
- Joined: 21 Sep 2011, 12:02
- Location: Hunter Valley, NSW, Australia
Re: What if peak oil had happened in the 1980s?
It kind of did peak in the 1970s and 1980s. For much of the West, at least, cheap oil peaked.
The West outsourced its industries to cheaper labour and more energy efficient countries. The UK was somewhat different. It was, for a great part of the 1980s, energy self sufficient and made a lot of mistakes and got "Dutch Disease".
The rest I kind of agree with. More coal use, more nuclear.
I saw a documentary on YouTube about the three day week and power cuts and yet the shops managed very well with cash and mechanical cash registers ... and candles.
We used to visit our Uncle in Leek, Staffordshire. In the late 1970s most of his street, terraced but he had a driveway to a garage in his rear garden as he was a corner house, had almost no cars. By the 1990s you struggled to park. Might have been a lot more public transport if the real peak oil came. My uncle never owned a car. Always used the bus or train.
The West outsourced its industries to cheaper labour and more energy efficient countries. The UK was somewhat different. It was, for a great part of the 1980s, energy self sufficient and made a lot of mistakes and got "Dutch Disease".
The rest I kind of agree with. More coal use, more nuclear.
I saw a documentary on YouTube about the three day week and power cuts and yet the shops managed very well with cash and mechanical cash registers ... and candles.
We used to visit our Uncle in Leek, Staffordshire. In the late 1970s most of his street, terraced but he had a driveway to a garage in his rear garden as he was a corner house, had almost no cars. By the 1990s you struggled to park. Might have been a lot more public transport if the real peak oil came. My uncle never owned a car. Always used the bus or train.
G'Day cobber!
- RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
Re: What if peak oil had happened in the 1980s?
Perhaps all the materials research that has led to better magnets (for dynamos, e.g. in wind turbines) and batteries (for electric cars) would have heppened earlier, through necessity. Physicists were still collaborating across the Iron Curtain back in the day, I think. I mean I remember reading Russian articles about atmospheric turbulence as part of my PhD research in 1986.
I wonder if African countries would have ended up better off than they are now?
I wonder if African countries would have ended up better off than they are now?