The Great Resignation

[UndercoverElephant]

Fascinating article about the global phenomenon of people in low-wage shitty jobs resigning, and people leaving cities heading for the countryside:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... on-global/

[Mark]

The world of work looks very different depending on where you live, what skills you have and how much you need the money.

I suspect the long term trend here will be more immigration (legal & illegal), regardless of what the Brexiteers say.
We're already seeing controls relaxed for HGV drivers, health workers, meat processors, fruit pickers...

I feel sorry for sweat shop labour in developing countries, as their meagre existence is likely to only get worse.
The temptation to migrate will only increase.....

[kenneal - lagger]

We have a shortage of labour but news outlets continually laud the creation of new jobs in the country. OK we need some new jobs to replace ones in failed industries but that number is limited. These jobs, except of course service industry jobs, can be exported to countries where there is surplus labour. This labour will be cheaper at first but the labour cost will rise over time as surplus labour is employed.

The only trouble with this scenario is that our economy is addicted to Growth so we keep the jobs in this country and import people to fill them. This growth is then multiplied by all the houses and infrastructure that has to be provided for all the new people. And all this growth has a drastic effect on our carbon emissions.

But the left can't see the bad in this system!

[PS_RalphW]

The radio 4 food rogramme was lamenting the shortage of chefs for restaurants as so many have left either their jobs or the country, so the remaining ones are being asked or ordered to work even longer hours (80 per week) to fill the gaps, so even more are leaving for easier jobs.

The fact is, a lot of restaurants are going to close, and the remaining ones get more expensive to pay for staff and rising food costs, etc. As a nation, we have got used to using cheap labour to provide personal services for the middle classes to give us a life of much more leasure that used to be limited to the rich. The middle classes are not going to like having to cut their own hair or groom their own nails or cook their own food. That way revolution lies, where nice mister (insert name of favourite dictator) promises to make the trains run on time

[Mark]

We have a shortage of labour but news outlets continually laud the creation of new jobs in the country. OK we need some new jobs to replace ones in failed industries but that number is limited. These jobs, except of course service industry jobs, can be exported to countries where there is surplus labour. This labour will be cheaper at first but the labour cost will rise over time as surplus labour is employed.

But the left can't see the bad in this system!

It's complex, Ken - I don't see it as a left/right argument

UK manufacturing has been exported to low wage countries for decades, but now we're seeing the creaking supply chain crisis, plus the human rights and environmental costs in some countries.... some industries will never return to the UK, bur personally, I think we should be making as much of our own as we can... what we do still make tends to be more specialised, which in turn needs higher skilled employees who tend to be in shorter supply...
It's been said on here many times that the UK needs to become more self-sufficient in Agriculture/Food, but this will need the people to do it...

The big corporates have tried 'offshoring' some services sector jobs - Call Centres and IT spring to mind as the obvious examples, but many people didn't like dealing with them, so some returned... there's no way to offshore haircuts, restaurants, supermarkets, HGV drivers, health workers etc.
What service industry jobs do you suggest could/should be exported to countries where there is surplus labour ?
Banking ? Insurance ? Advertising ? DVLA ? HMRC ?

Personally, I think part of the answer lies in becoming more efficient - more mechanisation, more AI, higher productivity - I know we've been trying to do that for decades, but we're way behind comparable countries....
Part of the solution also lies in our habits - WE'VE BECOME LAZY - how many people now rely on home deliveries from Supermarkets, Am@zon, JustEat, McDonalds etc. etc. etc..... this has created many hundreds of thousands of jobs and hundreds of thousands of extra road journeys that weren't there 5yrs ago and which we don't really need now that we're (hopefully) getting over the COVID crisis..., but I suspect are here to stay...

[Catweazle]

A problem with bringing manufacturing "back home" is that when we started buying imported goods we sold off our manufacturing equipment. Now, much of what we buy is made on the machinery we exported - we thought it was useless because it was too labour intensive, too expensive to run with our wage bill, but India is making mountains of stuff on it. When the price of imports reaches a level that makes local manufacturing viable again we'll wish we hadn't sold or scrapped all that equipment.

[Catweazle]

I do wonder if the Chinese - who I think have a very, very long-term view - have kept their prices so low in order to destroy the manufacturing capacity of the West.

Perhaps, in the interest of national security, it should be illegal to destroy manufacturing capability.

[kenneal - lagger]

This is what I actually said Mark!

.................... These jobs, except of course service industry jobs, can be exported to countries where there is surplus labour. ..........................

[Mark]

This is what I actually said Mark!

.................... These jobs, except of course service industry jobs, can be exported to countries where there is surplus labour. ..........................

Apologies Ken, I slightly misunderstood your post.
Could you give some examples of the jobs that you envisage can be exported to countries where there is surplus labour ?

[kenneal - lagger]

If we exported many of the manufacturing jobs which aren't required to replace lost jobs many of the "new" jobs in building new infrastructure wouldn't be needed so many of the new jobs building the infrastructure to support the new immigrants wouldn't be needed either. Its the equivalent of compound interest in stacking up new jobs!!

I also think that we have to reappraise our lifestyles and stop being entertained so much so that many of the jobs in entertainment and catering might go so there would be more people available for some of the more important things in life like food growing. Most of the service sector jobs are a result of our affluent lifestyle with money to burn! As we become less affluent as wealth is spread around the world we will all have to tighten our belts.

It's not a very popular viewpoint and not one any politician is going to espouse but it is a realistic one as far as I can see.

[Catweazle]

Be careful about cutting back on the catering industry, fast food shops are expert in making cheap rubbish calories into something edible, they're probably a lot more efficient at this than the average consumer, and many people survive on this crap.

[emordnilap]

Be careful about cutting back on the catering industry, fast food shops are expert in making cheap rubbish calories into something edible, they're probably a lot more efficient at this than the average consumer, and many people survive on this crap.

A self-driving truck unloads ingredients into designated funnels, which lead to various storage bins. The funnels may be automatically blown clear and sterilised prior to delivery. A human strolls in at the front of the building, chooses from a screen, taps her card; various ingredients are 3-D printed, wrapped and delivered to a hatch; she eats. A robot homes in on leftovers and rubbish, clears it away, sterilises the area, exits.

[adam2]

Be careful about cutting back on the catering industry, fast food shops are expert in making cheap rubbish calories into something edible, they're probably a lot more efficient at this than the average consumer, and many people survive on this crap.

A self-driving truck unloads ingredients into designated funnels, which lead to various storage bins. The funnels may be automatically blown clear and sterilised prior to delivery. A human strolls in at the front of the building, chooses from a screen, taps her card; various ingredients are 3-D printed, wrapped and delivered to a hatch; she eats. A robot homes in on leftovers and rubbish, clears it away, sterilises the area, exits.

We are some way from that I think, but possible in the long term, unless the world ends first. The degree of automation in a modern food factory is impressive. Automating a kitchen preparing meals to order is harder, but could be achieved one day.
I doubt that we will see a fully automated fast food outlet for many years, but a steadily increasing degree of automation is likely.

ISTR a prototype hamburger vending machine, that grilled the burger to order, and a chip vending machine that deep fried potato chips to order, wrapped them and dispensed via a hatch. There are already coffee vending machines that grind the beans and make filter coffee automatically. That would have been fiction not many years ago, far more complex than simply adding hot water to coffee powder.

[emordnilap]

A self-driving truck unloads ingredients into designated funnels, which lead to various storage bins. The funnels may be automatically blown clear and sterilised prior to delivery. A human strolls in at the front of the building, chooses from a screen, taps her card; various ingredients are 3-D printed, wrapped and delivered to a hatch; she eats. A robot homes in on leftovers and rubbish, clears it away, sterilises the area, exits.

We are some way from that I think, but possible in the long term, unless the world ends first. The degree of automation in a modern food factory is impressive. Automating a kitchen preparing meals to order is harder, but could be achieved one day.
I doubt that we will see a fully automated fast food outlet for many years, but a steadily increasing degree of automation is likely.

I've no doubt all the fast food chain bosses dream of the day when no pesky humans will have to be employed. In fact, I'd say they're working on it big time.

[Vortex2]

Fast food places in the US are having major staffing problems.

Some places have ZERO staff turning up.
Now and then police have to protect the site if nobody turns up but the doors are open.

One issue is that if staff reluctantly do turn up, they are working almost alone.
Customers however don't care and so abuse the few staff who are there for slow performance.
This abuse then puts off the keener staff and so they decide not to bother any more.