We're all being driven mad by maniacs who are obsessed by money.
To think Steve Jobs was worshiped around the world.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0 ... -episode-1
BBC TV: The Men Who Made Us Spend
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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frank_begbie
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BBC TV: The Men Who Made Us Spend
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
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mr brightside
- Posts: 595
- Joined: 01 Apr 2011, 08:02
- Location: On the fells
Loved it! Can't believe it all goes back as far as the mass production of the filament lamp. Apple inventing a totally new screw to stop you changing the battery in an iphone...awesome. It's nothing but an arms race, i'm so glad i'm not involved. I get the piss taken out of me at work by people saying everything i own is powered by steam, i hoard old Whitworth spanners that everyone else wangs and never hear the end of it. My phone is just a phone, nothing else, it's an 8210 which is the smallest a phone got before they started getting bigger. People keep giving me their old phones, i'm sorted for years never needing to buy one. People don't understand why i haven't got a smartphone and why i don't generally carry a mobile phone around with me. I'm always getting caught fixing things at work and getting criticised for not just binning it. I'd actually go as far as to say that the 'consumers' are xenophobic towards those choosing to operate outside of the maelstrom, and i'm regularly berated by them!
Persistence of habitat, is the fundamental basis of persistence of a species.
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emordnilap
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- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
Industry has successfully indoctrinated us westerners (collectively speaking) into thinking that new is better.
In terms of resource mining, the final and most sought-after resource is your pocket.
Fixing things is subversion, which is an unspoken reason why it is sometimes illegal. Indeed, I suspect legislation against fixing things will become broader in scope in future.
In terms of resource mining, the final and most sought-after resource is your pocket.
Fixing things is subversion, which is an unspoken reason why it is sometimes illegal. Indeed, I suspect legislation against fixing things will become broader in scope in future.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
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adam2
- Site Admin
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- Joined: 02 Jul 2007, 17:49
- Location: North Somerset, twinned with Atlantis
This programme was misleading in at least one respect, which makes me a bit doubtful about other parts of the programme.
Regarding the lifetime of filament lamps, it is a simple matter to make lamps of shorter or longer lifetimes, other factors being equal.
The longer the lamp lasts, the less efficient it is and the more expensive it is to run.
The standardisation on 1,000 hours average life actually SAVED consumers appreciable money on electricity, much greater than extra money spent on lamps.
The trouble is that most people hate buying lamps, but don't really care about electricity use.
The use of long life filament lamps was only justified if replacement was expensive or dangerous.
Consider an example for 10,000 hours light
Option 1
1,000 hour, 75 watt lamps that cost 50 pence each.
10 lamps are required for a total cost of £5.
Electricity used will be 750 KWH in total, which at 15p a unit will cost £112-50.
Total cost for lamps and power for 10,000 hours is £117-50.
Option 2, long life 2,500 hour lamps that are 100 watts so as to give the same light as regular 75 watt lamps. Cost 60 pence each
4 lamps are required for a total cost of £3-20
Electricity used will be 10,000 KWH for a total energy cost of £150, or total for lamps and fuel of £153-20.
Option 3 "everlasting" filament lamps that whilst not truly everlasting, should last 30,000 hours or more at a cost of £3 each.
For 10,000 hours light only third a lamp on average need be purchased at an average cost of £1-00.
These lamps would be of such low efficiency that 150 watt lamps would be needed to achieve the same light output.
Energy use would therefore cost £225, or with lamps, £226.
It may therefore be seen that use of long life filament lamps substantially increases total cost of lighting.
On a large installation, capital costs would also be increased due to the greater load to be supplied.
The use of very long life filament lamps was justified in special cases, such as aircraft warning lights atop a Church steeple. Skilled labour, scaffolding, or plant hire could cost as much as £1,000 per visit to replace lamps. Paying that much every 5 years rather than twice a year would buy a lot of electricity to power long life low efficiency lamps.
Years ago, lamps and electricity were a lot more expensive, in real terms, than is the case today, but the principle that longer lasting filament lamps cost more to run was as true decades ago as it is today.
These days of course CFL or LED lamps should be used where suitable.
Regarding the lifetime of filament lamps, it is a simple matter to make lamps of shorter or longer lifetimes, other factors being equal.
The longer the lamp lasts, the less efficient it is and the more expensive it is to run.
The standardisation on 1,000 hours average life actually SAVED consumers appreciable money on electricity, much greater than extra money spent on lamps.
The trouble is that most people hate buying lamps, but don't really care about electricity use.
The use of long life filament lamps was only justified if replacement was expensive or dangerous.
Consider an example for 10,000 hours light
Option 1
1,000 hour, 75 watt lamps that cost 50 pence each.
10 lamps are required for a total cost of £5.
Electricity used will be 750 KWH in total, which at 15p a unit will cost £112-50.
Total cost for lamps and power for 10,000 hours is £117-50.
Option 2, long life 2,500 hour lamps that are 100 watts so as to give the same light as regular 75 watt lamps. Cost 60 pence each
4 lamps are required for a total cost of £3-20
Electricity used will be 10,000 KWH for a total energy cost of £150, or total for lamps and fuel of £153-20.
Option 3 "everlasting" filament lamps that whilst not truly everlasting, should last 30,000 hours or more at a cost of £3 each.
For 10,000 hours light only third a lamp on average need be purchased at an average cost of £1-00.
These lamps would be of such low efficiency that 150 watt lamps would be needed to achieve the same light output.
Energy use would therefore cost £225, or with lamps, £226.
It may therefore be seen that use of long life filament lamps substantially increases total cost of lighting.
On a large installation, capital costs would also be increased due to the greater load to be supplied.
The use of very long life filament lamps was justified in special cases, such as aircraft warning lights atop a Church steeple. Skilled labour, scaffolding, or plant hire could cost as much as £1,000 per visit to replace lamps. Paying that much every 5 years rather than twice a year would buy a lot of electricity to power long life low efficiency lamps.
Years ago, lamps and electricity were a lot more expensive, in real terms, than is the case today, but the principle that longer lasting filament lamps cost more to run was as true decades ago as it is today.
These days of course CFL or LED lamps should be used where suitable.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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careful_eugene
- Posts: 647
- Joined: 26 Jun 2006, 15:39
- Location: Nottingham UK
I'm with you on fixing stuff rather than throwing it away but things today seem to be made to be unfixable. Also, I work in engineering and requirements / standards are constantly changing usually in the name of health and safety but I suspect just to generate revenue (Hi Vis clothing is a good example of this).mr brightside wrote:Loved it! Can't believe it all goes back as far as the mass production of the filament lamp. Apple inventing a totally new screw to stop you changing the battery in an iphone...awesome. It's nothing but an arms race, i'm so glad i'm not involved. I get the piss taken out of me at work by people saying everything i own is powered by steam, i hoard old Whitworth spanners that everyone else wangs and never hear the end of it. My phone is just a phone, nothing else, it's an 8210 which is the smallest a phone got before they started getting bigger. People keep giving me their old phones, i'm sorted for years never needing to buy one. People don't understand why i haven't got a smartphone and why i don't generally carry a mobile phone around with me. I'm always getting caught fixing things at work and getting criticised for not just binning it. I'd actually go as far as to say that the 'consumers' are xenophobic towards those choosing to operate outside of the maelstrom, and i'm regularly berated by them!
I have a few good whitworth spanners, but unfortunately they don't fit anything!
Paid up member of the Petite bourgeoisie
I succumbed to the ad men this week buying a hi tech bit of future land fill which promised to provide me with an experience that I used to dream about since watching scifi series in the late 60s. The reality of course falls a long way short, and although it cost more than (self installed) secondary glazing for my entire house, in practice it requires continued expenditure at premium rates to make the most of the technology. Also, it is largely incompatible with the other hi tech gadgets in the house, even one I bought only 18 months ago. Apparently there are 14 technical 'standards' to connect the 2 bits of hardware, but not one that is supported by both.
To a large extent this is deliberate, partly to make you keep buying new hardware, but mostly to make it almost impossible to bypass the 'pay here' screens.
I didn't really expect anything else...
To a large extent this is deliberate, partly to make you keep buying new hardware, but mostly to make it almost impossible to bypass the 'pay here' screens.
I didn't really expect anything else...
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mr brightside
- Posts: 595
- Joined: 01 Apr 2011, 08:02
- Location: On the fells
Whitworth spanners are great at getting you out of the $hit, and you can cut them up with a slitting disc to make custom spanners. My locknut spanner used to be a Czechslovakian made weird thing.careful_eugene wrote: I'm with you on fixing stuff rather than throwing it away but things today seem to be made to be unfixable. Also, I work in engineering and requirements / standards are constantly changing usually in the name of health and safety but I suspect just to generate revenue (Hi Vis clothing is a good example of this).
I have a few good whitworth spanners, but unfortunately they don't fit anything!
Persistence of habitat, is the fundamental basis of persistence of a species.