PowerSwitch

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/womens ... under.html

Whereas previously it wasn’t the done thing to talk about cash flow, finances – and the threat of bankruptcy – are, it appears, the latest hot topic of conversation.

“We are one pay cheque away from going under. If either of us loses our job then that is it. This will all be gone in a month. Kaput. Finished. Finito.”

Instead of doing the normal middle-class thing and quickly changing the subject I was surprised how most of the other guests confessed that they were in exactly the same position. There has been much in the news about how benefits are being slashed and those in the lower income brackets are suffering due to the austerity measures brought in by the government, but not many people are talking about the effect it's having on middle class families. These people who on the surface appear to have it all may not be doing as well they seem.

You could question why my hostess is throwing dinner parties in the first place if she's so worried about going under? Her point, however, is that she can afford it all for now – but if the next pay cheque failed to come through, she'd be broke, just like that. (Still, I'd better go easy on that overpriced bottle of wine she just opened.)

The Citizens Advice Bureau saw a sharp rise in the number of middle class people coming to them for advice due to mounting debts in 2011 and this only seems to be getting worse.

The cost of childcare is rising.

And rent and property prices especially in London are at an all-time high.

I see the same thing with most of my peer group as well as even the superficially affluent people where I live. Most people, even those with nice cars, fancy holidays and large homes, are relying on one pay cheque (or may 2/3) to survive. Not many have significant assets/cash to fall back on in the event of a emergency.

The people in that article deserve to go broke. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

I wouldn't go as far as UE but you have to wonder why they aren't cutting back a bit. Although they might have done the dinner party on the cheap and someone else might have bought the overpriced wine with them. A dinner party can be a relatively cheap way of entertaining one's self and friends.

A great many people in such circumstances could and arguably should cut back in order to better prepare for an uncertain future.

As above a dinner party can be relatively cheap, and arguably IS a way of cutting back if compared to dining out.

But what about taking a cheaper holiday ? or one holiday instead of several ? or even no holiday.
If not in a position to give up driving, then at least drive less to save petrol and keep the car for longer. When a new vehicle is unavoidable, then consider a cheaper one than previously.

Reducing or eliminating costly memberships and subscriptions is another way to save money with little pain.

Reducing waste of food and energy is easy in some households and often innvolves only trivial effort.
Buy non perishable foods in bulk so as to save money, and possibly also save petrol.
Many middle class households are over equiped with appliances and gadgets and could cut back with little pain. There is little point in selling surplus items in view of the low prices realised, but a household with multiple fridges, TVs, and comptuters could consider turning off the extra ones to save fuel, and keeping them as spares to replace future failures.

A lot of middle class households employ home help because thay allways have, rather than because it is in fact needed. Does one really need to pay a domestic to vaccuum clean and dust every day ?
Unless an unusual amount of dirt is produced, weekly cleaning by the owner should suffice.
Does one really to pay someone to iron the laundry ? Office shirts are smarter if ironed, but I see no need to iron bedding and underwear.

I still get confused with the class definition. Is it really about your level of monthly income? What level of monthly income makes you middle class?

If you're living pay cheque to pay cheque, you're not middle class by my definition, you're well off working class.

Even if you do read The Telegraph.

extractorfan wrote:I still get confused with the class definition. Is it really about your level of monthly income? What level of monthly income makes you middle class?
If you're living pay cheque to pay cheque, you're not middle class by my definition, you're well off working class.
Even if you do read The Telegraph.

Middle class versus working class is often considered to be about the TYPE of work done, and the life style either enjoyed or aspired to, not just about income.

A skilled plumber or drainage engineer can earn more than a middle manager in an office, but the plumber would be considered working class and the middle manager to be middle class.

Definitions are somwhat fluid, but in general working class means
Does a job that innvolves getting dirty, or shift working, or wearing overalls.
Is likely to visit the pub and local cafe regularly.
Drives an old vehicle or uses public transport
Takes package holidays in Spain.
More likely to thump someone who has done them wrong

Middle class usually means
Works largely sitting at a desk, wearing a suit, white shirt and a tie.
Visits the opera and theatre at least a few times a year
Seldom visits an ordinary pub to drink beer.
Takes "cultural breaks" in obscure places, not holidays.
Either sends kids to private school, or wishes that they could afford this
Either employs domestic staff, or if not, wishes that they could.
Tends to drive an expensive four wheel drive vehicle.
More likely to take to court someone who done them wrong.

As an example, I know a train driver who earns well over £50,000 a year, they consider themselves to be working class despite a salary in excess of many who consider themselves to be middle class.

Middle class usually means
Works largely sitting at a desk, wearing a suit, white shirt and a tie.
I do this without the tie
Visits the opera and theatre at least a few times a year
never been to opera, long time since i went the theatre
Seldom visits an ordinary pub to drink beer.
I go to the local pub 2 or 3 times a week, although my collegues hate the idea
Takes "cultural breaks" in obscure places, not holidays.
I would and have done this, can't afford now
Either sends kids to private school, or wishes that they could afford this
Nope
Either employs domestic staff, or if not, wishes that they could.
Nope
Tends to drive an expensive four wheel drive vehicle.
I would if it wasn't for Peak Oil and I didn't mind being a dick
More likely to take to court someone who done them wrong.
I'd punch them in the face, unless they were a double hard b*****d, then I guess I'd let it go

I think I'm working class because I'm not financially secure, I've got a buffer zone but it wouldn't last long (3 months maybe), then I'd lose the house.

Hm.

My parents were undoubtedly born working class, very poor. My dad got a scholarship to grammar school, and then university, and a backroom job in the war, where he met my mum, from the typing pool. Both were intelligent, well read and loved classical music, they definitely worked their way up into middle class, although their very cautious approach to money (Save save save) came as much from their protestant background as any pretensions to class. Even when I was young and they were in their 40s/50s, I remember a certain level of class stigma, I was chided if I copied the local accent and dad was not invited into the more academic circles of his peers.

I guess I qualify as middle class, except that I have no pretensions these days to big cars or cleaners or private schools or many foreign holidays. I am cautious with money and have been lucky in that respect, so that I am more financially secure than many of my more flashy neighbours.

I consider myself to be educated and intelligent, but that does not seem to fit into a class structure.

I think the job location is a poor definition of class. A licensed plumber may work in a ditch some of the time but he is definitely in a higher class then the laborer shoveling the dirt away from the pipe beside him. Also your choice of entertainment is of little value. If you like the people down at the pub why force yourself to go to the opera and put on airs.
A good way to look at it is how do you send your children to college. Upper class worries about Jr. making the right connections while at the "Right" university and grumbles about the cost as he writes a check. Middle class chooses a school that should get JR. a job after graduation and borrows some of the money to get him through. Working class sends the kid to the army or hopes to land enough scholarships to get through a trade school as Dad can't get another loan on top of what he is already carrying.

I'm in a class of my own.

kenneal - lagger wrote:you have to wonder why they aren't cutting back a bit.

Ken, I don't wonder at all and neither do you, I suspect - why should they 'cut back a bit'? It would be no surprise to us if they hadn't a clue what's going on. So why they shouldn't expect an increasing (or at least continuing) quality of life for them and even better for their kids - it's what they're used to.

No-one has ever told them the truth.

It's more subtle than that. The middle class (myself and a few others excepted) are, socially, quite a competitive lot (and HMG and big business like to keep it that way, because then we spend a lot more!). My guess is that even if these guys in the article knew what was what, they'd agonise about "cutting back" because, well, people would talk. People are (a bit) competitive but we're also a social animal.

To take an extreme example, supposing you're a self-employed architect and work's getting a bit thin. Would you pack in the golf club/gym subs? Given that your last job was got after a chat at the "19th hole", and the one before that while on the treadmill...

Also, moving from one class to another (up as well as down) is a very stressful experience. I think class is a lot more tightly linked to income in the USA than it is here: here it's a matter of what type of culture you fit into.

emordnilap wrote:I'm in a class of my own.

Yes, that's the only valid position. The rest is all so last, or even one before last, century.

RenewableCandy wrote:It's more subtle than that.

Yeah, agreed, you're better than me at putting yourself in others' Pradas - but subtlety is not what's required!

What an extraordinarily British conversation! I doubt Peak Oil is any respecter of such class differences.

By the way, did anyone see the Sportrelief programme about food poverty over the past couple of nights?