PowerSwitch

Okay, speaking just for myself. I can't do it any more. I like meat, but I can't do it any more. At least, not on these terms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ce4DJh-L7Ys

Ah, that's a cracker. Fair play to you for watching it Steve (it's only been out seven years ). Too often, documentaries preach to the choir.

It says that I've got to prove I'm over 18 in order to see where my food comes from! You're right, there's summat very wrong there. And I haven't even watched it yet!

RenewableCandy wrote:It says that I've got to prove I'm over 18 in order to see where my food comes from! You're right, there's summat very wrong there. And I haven't even watched it yet!

You can download it from veehd.com

According to YT, I'm under-age too. Probably from my habit of never entering truthful data into frivolous webshites.

No, what I meant was, realistic images of farming shouldn't be distressing.
1. If people must eat animals, then said animals should be dispatched humanely.
2. If an individual chooses not to go veggie, they should be able to cope with the fact of an animal dying before its time.

RenewableCandy wrote:It says that I've got to prove I'm over 18 in order to see where my food comes from!

It comes from the supermarket, silly!

RenewableCandy wrote:No, what I meant was, realistic images of farming shouldn't be distressing.
1. If people must eat animals, then said animals should be dispatched humanely.
2. If an individual chooses not to go veggie, they should be able to cope with the fact of an animal dying before its time.

I don't have a problem with "an animal dying before its time." In the wild, not many animals die of age-related causes.

And on the whole, animals are dispatched humanely - at least they are in the UK, most of the time. Certain religions have an opt out of this, which I think is wrong.

I think the biggest problem is not their age at death or the way they die, but their standard of living when they are alive - especially intensively farmed poultry, pigs that never see daylight and obviously things like geese that are force over-fed and calves that are denied any food but milk, both in the name of fine cuisine.

I don't see any great problem with eating, for example, a sheep that has spent most of its days wandering round a welsh hillside, and which was killed according to non-religious UK standards.

UndercoverElephant wrote:

RenewableCandy wrote:No, what I meant was, realistic images of farming shouldn't be distressing.
1. If people must eat animals, then said animals should be dispatched humanely.
2. If an individual chooses not to go veggie, they should be able to cope with the fact of an animal dying before its time.

I don't have a problem with "an animal dying before its time." In the wild, not many animals die of age-related causes.

And on the whole, animals are dispatched humanely - at least they are in the UK, most of the time. Certain religions have an opt out of this, which I think is wrong.

I think the biggest problem is not their age at death or the way they die, but their standard of living when they are alive - especially intensively farmed poultry, pigs that never see daylight and obviously things like geese that are force over-fed and calves that are denied any food but milk, both in the name of fine cuisine.

I don't see any great problem with eating, for example, a sheep that has spent most of its days wandering round a welsh hillside, and which was killed according to non-religious UK standards.

i don't have a problem with eating meat, per se. However, the manner of both the living and of the dying of those industrially farmed animals in that film has left me with a bloody hole in my soul. I have hunted and eaten animals. I even helped slaughter a few farm animals on farms when I was a lad. But, all of that was nothing to what I saw in that film. What happens to those animals is not right. It's not right.

Buy a gun and hunt your own meat. Alternatively, raise it yourself, but I realise that isn't so easy for many people.

I recently killed five big ewes, they lived well and died instantly without knowing it was going to happen. Now they are filling two freezers.

I didn't like killing them, I had sort of got to know them, but once they were dead the butchering was OK.

Is choosing not to watch the film the cowards choice? I like my meat as much as most of us do. I don't really want to watch something that may or may not be representative of how we get our meat and what happens to the animals who provide it. For once I think the right choice for me may be to bury my head in the sand - something I don't generally do. Actually, I didn't watch The Road for similar reasons.... one has to look after one's sanity....

It's a hard, hard thing. I am skint and am only just pulling myself back up by reluctantly going back to teaching, if only till the spring where I will re-assess my options. For me, choosing not to buy my meat cheap from the likes of Aldi is not an easy thing, but I'll try. However, I can't tell my mates, who are in equally dire straights that they should do the same as they would quite understandably tell me to bugger off.

stevecook172001 wrote:It's a hard, hard thing. I am skint and am only just pulling myself back up by reluctantly going back to teaching, if only till the spring where I will re-assess my options. For me, choosing not to buy my meat cheap from the likes of Aldi is not an easy thing, but I'll try. However, I can't tell my mates, who are in equally dire straights that they should do the same as they would quite understandably tell me to bugger off.

Is it possible to club together with your mates and buy from a local small scale farmer?......might even work out cheaper after the chip-in and divvy up.

Legislation makes it awkward for the small scale farmer to supply meat. For example, although I am legally allowed to kill and butcher my own livestock they can then only be eaten in my household by people who live there.

If I employed a slaughterman to kill the animal on my own premises, to save it from the stress of travelling and being put through the abatoir, that same slaughterman is not allowed to butcher the meat for me, it would have to be moved to a licensed butchers, or I would have to do it myself and once again only for household consumption.

Even if I do it all myself, on my premises, I have to dye certain parts blue so they don't get eaten, then either incinerate them or take them to a certified place for disposal. Flock records have to account for every animal, but many people simply write "missing", allegedly.

A small scale farmer couldn't compete on price with the factory farms, and the truth is that Joe Public doesn't care enough about the issues to pay 50p per kilo more.

Catweazle wrote:Legislation makes it awkward for the small scale farmer to supply meat. For example, although I am legally allowed to kill and butcher my own livestock they can then only be eaten in my household by people who live there.

If I employed a slaughterman to kill the animal on my own premises, to save it from the stress of travelling and being put through the abatoir, that same slaughterman is not allowed to butcher the meat for me, it would have to be moved to a licensed butchers, or I would have to do it myself and once again only for household consumption.

Even if I do it all myself, on my premises, I have to dye certain parts blue so they don't get eaten, then either incinerate them or take them to a certified place for disposal. Flock records have to account for every animal, but many people simply write "missing", allegedly.

A small scale farmer couldn't compete on price with the factory farms, and the truth is that Joe Public doesn't care enough about the issues to pay 50p per kilo more.

All true enough, covered most of what you're highlighting during research for a mobile abattoir.
Steve, obviously is bothered enough though and I'm not so sure it's as simple as the public simply don't care, more that they're kept in ignorance and even then often don't have the financial ability to purchase ethically.

Pig clubs and the like might be an option, bit of fun too, chickens aren't all that high maintenance and easy enough to grow feed for them, the whole thing is a bloody mess, I'm a big fan of community farms.

peaceful_life wrote:All true enough, covered most of what you're highlighting during research for a mobile abattoir.
Steve, obviously is bothered enough though and I'm not so sure it's as simple as the public simply don't care, more that they're kept in ignorance and even then often don't have the financial ability to purchase ethically.

Pig clubs and the like might be an option, bit of fun too, chickens aren't all that high maintenance and easy enough to grow feed for them, the whole thing is a bloody mess, I'm a big fan of community farms.

In terms of space, rabbits provide the most efficient meat per square yard. But, they still take space, time, energy and up-front money. All of which are in short supply for an average low-paid urban person. I'm not trying to be negative about this. But it's just the reality for a lot of folks. For me, it's different. I am enough of a malcontent, enough of a stubborn mule and just plain daft enough to do what I need to whatever the cost.