External insulation - are there any grants in the pipeline ?

[Catweazle]

For the benefit of fools who buy houses with solid stone walls and are freezing their knackers off ?

Damn, it's cold in here

[JohnB]

Are the walls covered in cement on both sides, have you got concrete paths up against them outside, and is the outside ground level less than 6 inches below floor level? If so, the walls are probably wet, so won't hold heat as well as if they were dry. I'm not sure how much difference dealing with that lot and replacing it with lime makes, but it's good fun knocking it all off, and doing the lime plastering!

I haven't got as far as investigating external insulation yet.

[kenneal - lagger]

There are no grants as such but under the Green Deal you can get subsidised external insulation if you live in "a difficult to treat house", i.e. one with solid walls. The energy companies have an obligation to treat these type of houses and so they are subsidised so that they can pass the "Golden Rule", that the energy savings should cover the payments of the cost of any treatments.

I would look carefully at the level of the payments because if you have enough cash or can get a cheap mortgage, look at the Ecology Building Society's loans for insulation, it might be cheaper than the Green Deal payments, especially if you intend staying in the house for a long time. If you are going to stay in the house for a long time it would also make sense to look at the thickness of insulation proposed by the Green Deal contractor as they are unlikely to propose any more than the basic Building Regs standard.

Look for a U-value of about 0.1 to 0.15 for the optimum level of wall insulation. 0.08, or 450 of mineral fibre, in the roof would be good too.

[Catweazle]

Are the walls covered in cement on both sides, have you got concrete paths up against them outside, and is the outside ground level less than 6 inches below floor level? If so, the walls are probably wet, so won't hold heat as well as if they were dry. I'm not sure how much difference dealing with that lot and replacing it with lime makes, but it's good fun knocking it all off, and doing the lime plastering!

I haven't got as far as investigating external insulation yet.

It's a traditional build, pre 1887, with a ditch around the house containing large pebbles. The house is neglected and the ditch mostly full of leaves, twigs and detritus, it will be cleared out soon. There are damp walls in places due to rotten barge boards at the top and slipped slates in places.

The walls are mostly stone, more than 2 feet thick with the common square block edges and some kind of textured render between, it looks like pebble dashing that has been painted. Like many old houses it has small windows and is quite dark, I think external insulation will make this worse, the exception is the kitchen which is a later addition and has enough glass to be a greenhouse, also cold but at least it's bright.

[Catweazle]

There are no grants as such but under the Green Deal you can get subsidised external insulation if you live in "a difficult to treat house", i.e. one with solid walls. The energy companies have an obligation to treat these type of houses and so they are subsidised so that they can pass the "Golden Rule", that the energy savings should cover the payments of the cost of any treatments.

I'll look into it, thanks. I did read something about subsidised heat pumps for houses off mains gas, not sure if that's worthwhile on its own, but maybe feasible with decent insulation fitted.

[Tarrel]

For the benefit of fools who buy houses with solid stone walls and are freezing their knackers off ?

Damn, it's cold in here

Ha! Join the club. Your place sounds similar in construction to ours. Ours is basically in two halves:

- an older part (early 1800s) with small windows. This includes the kitchen and Rayburn and has been internally insulated.

- a newer (late 1800s) extension which is the lounge. Two large windows, a skylight, three external walls, north-facing, open fire with draughty chimney. Well, you can imagine...

The old part seems to stay warm with the Rayburn on tick-over (couple of logs glowing away, chuck another one in evry 45 mins or so). The heat just seems to seep through the space and warm everything up. The lounge needs the central heating on full blast just to get it to a bearable temperature (as determined while wearing a thick, hand-knitted fairisle jumper).

To be honest, we've found the simplest, and most cost-effective, solution for us at the moment is to treat the lounge as a nice, light, airy summer room but retreat to the warmer, older "core" from November to February.

For the record, the internal insulation is rockwool in a large gap between the stone wall and the dry-lining. Not state of the art, I know, but it was here when we moved in, and does seem to make a difference. Needless to say, the loft is insulated.

A project over the summer is to fit removable secondary glazing panels over the windows in the lounge, to double glaze the skylight, and to draught-proof the fireplace. (we don't use the latter very often. It is a very attractive cast iron and tiled Victorian affair. My plan is to use 3mm acrylic sheet, edged with magnetic strip, to cover the opening and prevent draughts. This will allow the visual appearance to be maintained, and the panel can be easily removed if we want to light a fire.). We'll see next winter what difference this makes.

What form of heating do you have CW?

[boisdevie]

For the benefit of fools who buy houses with solid stone walls and are freezing their knackers off ?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to insulate those knackers?

[Tarrel]

For the benefit of fools who buy houses with solid stone walls and are freezing their knackers off ?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to insulate those knackers?

Surface-area to volume ratio problem. You'd end up looking like you had serious problems down below!

[JohnB]

For the benefit of fools who buy houses with solid stone walls and are freezing their knackers off ?

Wouldn't it be cheaper to insulate those knackers?

Mine are externally insulated by my thermals .

[RenewableCandy]

A project over the summer is to ... draught-proof the fireplace. (we don't use the latter very often. It is a very attractive cast iron and tiled Victorian affair. My plan is to use 3mm acrylic sheet, edged with magnetic strip, to cover the opening and prevent draughts.

Meanwhile I hope you have a Chimney Cushion, or even just a load of scrunched-up newspapers, which is better than nowt.

[Tarrel]

A project over the summer is to ... draught-proof the fireplace. (we don't use the latter very often. It is a very attractive cast iron and tiled Victorian affair. My plan is to use 3mm acrylic sheet, edged with magnetic strip, to cover the opening and prevent draughts.

Meanwhile I hope you have a Chimney Cushion, or even just a load of scrunched-up newspapers, which is better than nowt.

Looks like a jumbo-sized plastic haggis!

We do actually have a flap that closes in the chimney for when the fire isn't in use, but if anything it increases the speed of the airflow when it's closed.

Thanks for the tip about the chimney pillow.

[Catweazle]

Our wood stove is absolutely useless, I swear the room gets colder when it's lit due to the dyson-like draw on the chimney. I've tried playing with the damper but it makes little difference.

Funds permitting I hope to put in a decent guality stove ( like my old Dunsley at the previous house) with an external sealed air supply.

[woodburner]

Where does the air for the stove come from? If it is through the door and across the room, it might be worth drilling through the wall near the stove and ducting air to the stove.

[RenewableCandy]

Grille in the floorboards under or near the stove, and another on the outside wall under floor level (assuming you have a suspended floor).

[Catweazle]

Some modern stoves, like the Dunsley Yorkshire ( I really miss that stove ), come with external air kits. The air comes through the wall, into the stove and eventually up the chimney. The stove itself if sealed from the room and needs no vent. Proper seals around the doors and access panels mean no leakage into the room.

Sadly the prices of quality stoves have shot up in recent years and with the £ losing value I doubt they'll come down again. I might have to bite the bullet though, LPG is very expensive and Mrs C is not as comfortable living in Army Surplus thermals as I am.