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This report from Tullet Prebon is well worth a read. It nicely places PO within the general economy and has some interesting EROEI calculations,


Peter.

Ultimately, the economy is – and always has been – a surplus energy equation, governed by the laws of thermodynamics, not those of the market.

Fair play to these guys.

A single US gallon of gasoline delivers work equivalent to between 360 and 490 hours of strenuous human labour, labour which would cost perhaps $6,500 if it were paid for at prevailing rates.

Heh heh. "You push me 25 miles to work in half an hour and I'll pay you six grand+"

emordnilap wrote: Heh heh. "You push me 25 miles to work in half an hour and I'll pay you six grand+"

No, in 390 - 460 hours....


Peter.

Maybe - but I was thinking, do equivalent work in equivalent time. Not that it matters,

emordnilap wrote:Maybe - but I was thinking, do equivalent work in equivalent time. Not that it matters,

But, then it would only cost you £3 or whatever the minimum wage is for half an hour's work (the point is that it does matter - $100 of oil gives you $6,000 worth of unskilled human labour - or whatever the eaxct calculation is),


Peter.

Blue Peter wrote:$100 of oil gives you $6,000 worth of unskilled human labour - or whatever the eaxct calculation is

Apologies for pointing this out but actually, they're saying a gallon of it gives you that much, not a barrel/$100. A barrel will give you $6,500x42 = $273,000, which sounds about as it should be.

emordnilap wrote:

Blue Peter wrote:$100 of oil gives you $6,000 worth of unskilled human labour - or whatever the eaxct calculation is

Apologies for pointing this out but actually, they're saying a gallon of it gives you that much, not a barrel/$100. A barrel will give you $6,500x42 = $273,000, which sounds about as it should be.

No probs, that's the important bit; I couldn't remember whether it was a barrel or a gallon. It just shows the wonder that is oil,


Peter.

I know. I think cycling to work (for me) uses the equivalent energy of a slice or two of brown bread, or something daft like that. I dunno.

It's quite possible a car uses more energy when that rare beast, a careful person, stops to take a short call on their cell phone. Does that work out at something like minus 25 mpg?

Blue Peter wrote:

emordnilap wrote:

Blue Peter wrote:$100 of oil gives you $6,000 worth of unskilled human labour - or whatever the eaxct calculation is

Apologies for pointing this out but actually, they're saying a gallon of it gives you that much, not a barrel/$100. A barrel will give you $6,500x42 = $273,000, which sounds about as it should be.

No probs, that's the important bit; I couldn't remember whether it was a barrel or a gallon. It just shows the wonder that is oil,


Peter.

It also shows how much we will one day be willing to pay for it.!

emordnilap wrote:It's quite possible a car uses more energy when that rare beast, a careful person, stops to take a short call on their cell phone.

You're not supposed to use a cell phone with the engine running!

JohnB wrote:

emordnilap wrote:It's quite possible a car uses more energy when that rare beast, a careful person, stops to take a short call on their cell phone.

You're not supposed to use a cell phone with the engine running!

Eh? Really?

What about talking on a cell phone whilst filling up with petrol at a garage with the engine running? Yup, I've seen it.

Blue Peter wrote:This report from Tullet Prebon is well worth a read. It nicely places PO within the general economy and has some interesting EROEI calculations,


Peter.

They could have saved a lot of paper by dispensing with all the pictures of ruins but that piece does bring together a lot of what is going on and is going to happen into one comprehensible lot. Not a pretty picture and of course no clue as to what to do about it.

Here's a different sort of perfect storm for the weekend. 932mb at the centre.

vtsnowedin wrote:

Blue Peter wrote:This report from Tullet Prebon is well worth a read. It nicely places PO within the general economy and has some interesting EROEI calculations,


Peter.

They could have saved a lot of paper by dispensing with all the pictures of ruins but that piece does bring together a lot of what is going on and is going to happen into one comprehensible lot. Not a pretty picture and of course no clue as to what to do about it.

Says we'll see hyperinflation, whereas the Automatic Earth suggest deflation....

Didn't like the way it was unreferenced, yet appears to have drawn in large part form Martenson's crash course, himself only one of several writers - Kunstler, Orlov, Heinberg, Greer et al all linking economics to energy. Martenson just got a nod in the text. Failed to mention the Export Land Model, yet comes to the conclusion that declining EROEI alone has us doomed inside a decade.

More generally, we really do need to properly distinguish EROI meaning financial return on energy gained, and EROEI meaning net energy gain. Or loss, as the case may be...

Mean Mr Mustard wrote:[More generally, we really do need to properly distinguish EROI meaning financial return on energy gained, and EROEI meaning net energy gain. Or loss, as the case may be...

That is an interesting point of view. I suppose the last barrel of crude that comes out of the ground will sell for millions but it won't contain anymore BTUs then today's $90 dollar oil or the 1970s $20 dollar oil. I bet they wont burn that last barrel of oil to heat some drafty old building.