PowerSwitch

UndercoverElephant wrote:It will take all day to read, but it is all directly relevant to the topics discussed on this website:

http://theautomaticearth.com/Energy/ren ... ality.html[/quote

"The necessary funds will not be available, and in the coming period of deleveraging, deflation and economic depression,"

... agree with the pessimistic tone. Statements like the above are slanted slightly wrong to me - alternative energy isn't waiting for money... money is energy (when its working right).

Either renewable energy works, in which case it makes its own money, ... or it doesn't


I often hear similar nonsense in real life... "it just needs investment.." .. detachment of money and energy, a lack of understanding of the link

Technologically harnessable renewable energy is largely a myth.

yes. i skimmed the rest, (preaching to the converted) but most people just project forward images they have in their head of oil-age devices.

There's also the crazy idea that we didn't develop renewables because we dont need it while the oil is flowing - but the demand is always there for many multiples more than we have... there's no reason renewables aren't used in parallel with oil other than they are pathetic by comparison.

This is really an abuse of the true potential of renewable power, which is to provide small-scale, distributed supply directly adjacent to demand, as negative load. Minimizing the infrastructure requirement maximizes the EROEI, which is extremely important for low EROEI energy sources. It would also minimize the grid-management headache renewable energy wheeled around the grid can give power system operators. Nevertheless, most plans for renewable build-out are very infrastructure-heavy, and therefore energy and capital intensive to create.

biffvernon wrote:Somebody care to summarise in under 100 words?

UndercoverElephant wrote:Looks like this is one of those rare occasions when I am in complete agreement with the donkey...

We all know it. It's no good trying to switch to renewables without switching everything else we do to completely different modus operandi. Either everything changes, or lots of really bad stuff happens...and everything changes.

UndercoverElephant wrote:
We all know it. It's no good trying to switch to renewables without switching everything else we do to completely different modus operandi.

biffvernon wrote:Gosh, everybody in agreement. Is this a PowerSwitch group hug.

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:

biffvernon wrote:Somebody care to summarise in under 100 words?

Easy.

The idea that renewables could ever replace fossil fuels to power our society, or even a tiny sliver of our society is a middle class fantasy promulgated by those with no real grasp of the scale of the undertaking. All but the strong will die cold and alone within X years.

We can, of course, live in a world of renewable energy only, as we have done through out most of history

Lord Beria3 wrote:
This is the key quote for me. Renewables (in their current generational state of development) are useful on a small scale but cannot replace our fossil fuel system.

Alain75 wrote:

Lord Beria3 wrote: For PV I also read somewhere that if you add up all the electric/electronics system and batteries required for plenty of small installations, the number really do not compare very well.

i guessed that PV had a niche for satelites because of the energy required to get any other energy store into orbit, and thats why its not already more commonly terrestrially.

I think concentrators could have been made with c19th tech (mirrors..steam), must be many obvious reasons why they wont scale, eg needing water AND sunlight