PowerSwitch

What we are witnessing on the Continent is a bubbling up from the masses of rising nationalism, populist rage and hostility towards the political and financial elites that dominate the continent.

In Greece anti-German popular rage is epidemic ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17177200 ) and the fastest growing parties are the isolationistic far left and far right. In Spain and other countries among the PIIGS, similar social unrest and anger is growing like a volcano.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... urope.html

In Germany the bulk off the population is hostile to the latest Greek bailout according to polls (two thirds) and despite this, the majority of the political class have voted for the bailout.

All this is very dangerious. The euro was intended to build a common European identity and Union but what the structures of the Euro are doing are driving the peoples of Europe apart. Maybe with decades of economic growth, the elites could get away with this Project, but we are now starting the transition to Scarcity Industrialism and the end of growth. The economic pie is going to (has done!) start shrinking and the potential for social and political backlash from the increasingly impoverished masses is only going to rise.

The political will from the current generation of European elites is committed to the Project, but within a few years, far left and far right parties feeding of this social anger will start to sweep away this cohort and replace them with statist, protectionist and nationalistic leaders with a very different vision of Europe.

The European Union is facing a slow and painful collapse. The long term consequences is anather European war within this generation as conventional oil starts to rapidly decline by the end of this decade, leading to the collapse of free market economies (as predicted by the German military in their report on PO) and the democracies of Europe.

I strikes me that it has always been in the interest of the $$$ economy to see the €€€ economy fail. More so as it became strong enough to support trade in oil.

I'm waiting eagerly for the result of the Greek election in April. This is a coalition which was put together specifically to enact the austerity plans to get the next bailout money, and they are going to be destroyed at the election. The next coalition is likely to be between the greens and the communists, and that will set an interesting precedent - the first far left, anti-EU government elected in an EU country, ever. It will strike terror into the hearts of those people who thought communism had been defeated forever, especially those in the other PIIGS countries.

It really is the primary components of the capitalist system that people are now growing to hate: the banks and other financial insitutions, the international corporations, the super-rich and all of the politicians who have just gone along with the injustices because they were too spineless or stupid to speak out, or more likely because it suited them just fine to go along with it.

This does not have to lead to WWIII. But it does set up a conflict between the existing financial powers-that-be and democratically elected governments of various European countries.

Interesting feature in El Pais last week about all the Spanish who are suddenly turning up in Norway in search of work (I heart 1950 style).

Not entirely unexpectedly, they are turning up in their hundreds in places like Bergen (a) without being able to speak either English or Norwegian, (b) not expecting cold weather in winter, (c) unaware of the cost of living in Norway.

Then they're living on the streets.

In the words of the burghers of Bergen, totally unprepared.

They're basically being told to go home. As Norway says, if you come here voluntarily, there's nothing we're going to do for you. Norway doesn't have the infrastructure for tens of thousands of homeless and penniless itinerants suddenly turning up from southern Europe.

UndercoverElephant wrote:
It really is the primary components of the capitalist system that people are now growing to hate: the banks and other financial insitutions, the international corporations, the super-rich and all of the politicians who have just gone along with the injustices because they were too spineless or stupid to speak out, or more likely because it suited them just fine to go along with it.

I understand the sentiment but I suspect what they really hate isn't the banks or the government or the financial system or the corporations.

What they really hate is being poor.

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:
It really is the primary components of the capitalist system that people are now growing to hate: the banks and other financial insitutions, the international corporations, the super-rich and all of the politicians who have just gone along with the injustices because they were too spineless or stupid to speak out, or more likely because it suited them just fine to go along with it.

I understand the sentiment but I suspect what they really hate isn't the banks or the government or the financial system or the corporations.

What they really hate is being poor.

Nope, they definitely hate the banks and politicians.

They may hate being poor too, but that doesn't mean they don't hate the banks and politicians. It is about justice more than wealth. So long as people aren't actually getting poorer, they are willing to tolerate economic injustice.

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:

UndercoverElephant wrote:
It really is the primary components of the capitalist system that people are now growing to hate: the banks and other financial insitutions, the international corporations, the super-rich and all of the politicians who have just gone along with the injustices because they were too spineless or stupid to speak out, or more likely because it suited them just fine to go along with it.

I understand the sentiment but I suspect what they really hate isn't the banks or the government or the financial system or the corporations.

What they really hate is being poor.

I think most people are starting to be able to distinguish the symptoms from the disease.

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:I strikes me that it has always been in the interest of the $$$ economy to see the €€€ economy fail.

+1

One of the major pillars of US power in the world is the dollar as the global reserve currency; the Euro is a threat to the dollar's status, in that it provides an alternative.

Those who have attempted to trade oil in other currencies have usually come unstuck PDQ.

UndercoverElephant wrote:The next coalition is likely to be between the greens and the communists, and that will set an interesting precedent - the first far left, anti-EU government elected in an EU country, ever.

If they're anything like our 'Greens' it will be a farce. If ever you needed proof of power corrupting...

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:I understand the sentiment but I suspect what they really hate isn't the banks or the government or the financial system or the corporations.

What they really hate is being poor.

Perhaps, but being unequal is just as bad.

energy-village wrote:

JavaScriptDonkey wrote:I strikes me that it has always been in the interest of the $$$ economy to see the €€€ economy fail.

+1

One of the major pillars of US power in the world is the dollar as the global reserve currency; the Euro is a threat to the dollar's status, in that it provides an alternative.

Those who have attempted to trade oil in other currencies have usually come unstuck PDQ.

+1

Poverty seems to be tolerated far more if you genuinely believe that you can work your way out of it, and if you also believe the corollery that "the rich" are those who have done so (rather than simply strike massively lucky in terms of inherited wealth, social connections such as schools, or straightforward fraud).

RenewableCandy wrote:[Poverty seems to be tolerated far more if you genuinely believe that you can work your way out of it, and if you also believe the corollery that "the rich" are those who have done so (rather than simply strike massively lucky in terms of inherited wealth, social connections such as schools, or straightforward fraud).

Perhaps poverty can be tolerated if it has not been imposed on the poor for the express purpose of enriching the rich. There is a vast difference between a rich person who became rich by collecting a dollar each from a few million or a billion people that were happy to pay the buck for the service or object provided and a person that has held a population in serfdom to gather the cream of the land into his hands regardless of the human cost to create this profit or cream.

vtsnowedin wrote:

RenewableCandy wrote:[Poverty seems to be tolerated far more if you genuinely believe that you can work your way out of it, and if you also believe the corollery that "the rich" are those who have done so (rather than simply strike massively lucky in terms of inherited wealth, social connections such as schools, or straightforward fraud).

Perhaps poverty can be tolerated if it has not been imposed on the poor for the express purpose of enriching the rich. There is a vast difference between a rich person who became rich by collecting a dollar each from a few million or a billion people that were happy to pay the buck for the service or object provided and a person that has held a population in serfdom to gather the cream of the land into his hands regardless of the human cost to create this profit or cream.

Yes. Honest labour is not rewarded quite as well as a con these days (thinking of stuff like accident management companies, just about any bank, all the usual suspects).

energy-village wrote: Those who have attempted to trade oil in other currencies have usually come unstuck PDQ.

I think I heard on the world service last night that Iran was prepared to trade oil for gold (I was half asleep). This has been rumoured before, because of the US sanctions making dollar trading harder for them.

This is rapidly turning into a self-fulfilling prophesy

US - Trade in dollars or we will attack.

US - Stop building nuclear technology or we will attack

US - We are applying sanctions to stop you trading your oil in dollars

US - You stopped trading in dollars - don't say we didn't warn you!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... rties.html

Superb article outlining how Europe is drifting back to the dark days of the Thirties.