Great Dorset Steam Fair

[adam2]

Anyone else been ?

I go almost every year.
A fascinating insight into how things were done in days gone by, and perhaps a partial preview of what life might be like after the crash.

Ploughing by horse power and with steam ploughing engines.
Wood sawing with large saw benches powered by a traction engine.
Building roads and tracks with steam driven plant.
Threshing and grain milling the old way.
Stationery steam engines and other types for powering electric lights.


Not a very green event though, almost everyone drives to it and vast amounts of coal and oil fuels are burnt.
Most trade stalls used FF powered generators, though I was pleased to see a few PV or wind powered stalls.
A few traditionalists had still had stalls lit by oil lamps, probably less fuel used than running a generator for a couple of lamps.
Quite a few modern EVs in use to get around the fair, and one home made steam/electric hybrid which may be a first !
A few heritage EVs
And steam cars, as will be driven by the elite in the post oil age.

Anyone going next year ?

Edit to add link http://www.gdsf.co.uk/visitors_informat ... story.aspx

[the_lyniezian]

Alll these steam fairs make me wonder, how many working traction engines and other steam-powered machines there are left working (I mean, people do work on them and restore them, fix them...) and how useful they would be if ever put to work again.

[adam2]

Alll these steam fairs make me wonder, how many working traction engines and other steam-powered machines there are left working (I mean, people do work on them and restore them, fix them...) and how useful they would be if ever put to work again.

AFAIK there are about 1,000 steam powered road vehicles in working order in the UK, a few burn heavy oil but most burn coal.
This includes showmans engines that generate electricity, traction engines, ploughing engines, steam trucks, tractors and the like, and a handful of steam cars.
Post crash, that would help a bit with ploughing, threshing, grain grinding, and very limited transport, and generating a very little electricity.

There are also about 100 steam railway locomotives either in running order, or able to be put to use in an emergency. All burn coal.

The number of stationery steam engines in running order is unknown, but may number thousands.
Many were used industrialy until recently, and a handful may still be.
Water and sewage works used steam power until recently, a few have retained working steam either for standby purposes, or to demonstrate to tourists and enthuisats.
Many small stationery steam engines are in the hands of collectors and could be put to use driving machinery. Most burn coal.

[biffvernon]

A friend of mine has a steam traction engine. It uses a hell of a lot of coal to go nowhere slowly.

[ziggy12345]

The guy down the road has a steam powered motorbike. He rides it around the country fair every year as its still in working order

[adam2]

A friend of mine has a steam traction engine. It uses a hell of a lot of coal to go nowhere slowly.

Such machines are neither green nor economical, but we might be glad of them in an oil poor future, especialy in the event of an Alex Scarow Event.
Most can burn wood, though this is not the prefered fuel.

In the future there will be less transport of both goods and people, but some bulky and heavy items will still need transport, for which steam could be useful.

Traction engines can, whilst stationary, drive machinery via a belt from the flywheel. This is the traditional way of threshing grain, sawing heavy timber, and crushing rocks to make aggregate.
It is said, that 4 men and a steam engine can saw enough wood in one day to build a large barn. It would take months to cut that much timber by hand.

[adam2]

Thought that it was worth adding to this old thread re steam power.
A doomer friend is going to purchase a steam engine for emergency use.
Not a traction engine but a stationery engine intended to drive various machines by means of a belt.
The engine would probably be an old one, but be supplied with steam from a modern solid fuel boiler.

It will be installed in a detached workshop with a suitable flue for the boiler.
Owing to the cost of coal and the carbon intensity thereof only limited use is expected whilst times are normal but it would be very valuable in the event of any sudden crash or disaster.
10KW of electricity could be produced which would be a most useful suplement to PV in prolonged cloudy weather.
Other suitable machinery could be belt driven if desired including a large grain mill or saw bench.

[emordnilap]

Not a traction engine but a stationery engine intended to drive various machines by means of a belt.

On paper, does it run?

[PS_RalphW]

Steam engines are nice, low technology. However, they are hideously inefficient by modern standards, heavy and have slow response times - you need to heat an entire boiler full of water from ambient to 100C before they even start working.

An external combustion heat engine like a stirling engine is more effficient and practical, small scale. Unfortunately small stirling engines are hard to come by, and require advanced materials to work efficiently and reliably.

About 1900 staionary steam engines were largely replaced by stationary petrol engines, which were smaller, cheaper, easier to move and operate. The early models are much more robust than modern generators, although you need to check they will run on unleaded fuel.

My dad (sadly died 6 weeks ago) built model steam engines and restored old stationary engines as a hobby, and designed stirling engines professionally.

[BritDownUnder]

The guy down the road has a steam powered motorbike. He rides it around the country fair every year as its still in working order

That's quite interesting. I will have to research that. I saw a picture of a woodgas powered motorbike too that ran about 50 miles on 20 lbs of wood.

On a more related note I went to the Maitland Steamfest today in Australia. Quite a lot of the engines there were made in the UK. A steam powered bus and truck too. I went early so they were still getting the bus off the transporter but I saw it running last year and could get upto about 30mph I guess. The usual oil and early petrol engines were there too.

I wonder whether there will ever be wood heated stirling engines. I don't know why they are not out there as a CHP system for remote houses. Must be too complicated and breakdown a lot I guess.

[Catweazle]

I think old tractors running on bio-diesel are more likely than steam powered traction engines.

Better still would be electric tractors, we aren't worried about the weight or aerodynamics so a massive lead-acid battery and a chunky motor with a large PV panel on the roof is OK. Overnight charging could perhaps be done by coupling the PTO to a wind turbine and using the motor as a generator.

When the cars stop running there will be plenty of spare lead and acid.

In WW2 tractors and lorries were fitted with woodgas generators, but they're too much hassle for a small journey / job although OK if you have a whole field to plough or trailer full of livestock to get to market.

[adam2]

Whilst traction engines or other steam vehicles could be useful in certain circumstances, I see more merit in stationary steam engines.
The low efficiency is then less important since for regular use the waste heat could used for space heating or crop drying.

If large premises have a heating demand of say 80KW, the extra fuel needed to raise steam and generate perhaps 20KW of electricity is very small if compared to the fuel used for space heating alone.

Steam ploughing engines may yet make a comeback, the plough is pulled to and fro between two engines, one each side of the field.
This has the merit of not compacting the soil with the weight of a tractor.

A traction engine is of course a mobile multi purpose machine and on a large estate would have many uses including
Hauling heavy loads from the railway station or canal
Conveying large numbers of people in a suitable trailer
The removing of cut trees from a wood by means of a long chain
Generating electricity for charging large battery banks
Large scale grain milling or animal feed grinding
Driving a saw bench

Such machines are large, heavy, and expensive and most unlikely to be justified except on a large estate.
I know someone who owns one, it is largely a rich mans hobby at present but was purchased and is maintained in first class condition with a view to serious use in any long term emergency.
The last serious use of the machine was during the recent heavy snow, it dealt with deep snow drifts with ease and was used to deliver food to sheep and to rescue modern vehicles stuck in the snow.

[clv101]

I don't see a significant return of steam. Renewabes, basically solar and wind, coupled with electric motors seems more likely. If we lose the capability to manufacture PV/wind/motors - then I doubt any significant amount of coal would be available eiher. UK coal mining is a lot harder (more tech-reliant) now than it was 200 years ago!

Edit: Typo steel changed to steam!

[vtsnowedin]

I think old tractors running on bio-diesel are more likely than steam powered traction engines.

I think that is the way it will go as well. But not limited to "Old" tractors but any tractor that is without crude oil derived fuel will get switched to bio diesel. My 2012 tractor has a section in its manual about running it on bio diesel. They say you can expect a twenty percent performance reduction and need frequent fuel filter changes but it certainly can be done. That would still be far more efficient then switching to steam power and you have an adequate supply of tractors on hand to use without starting over at the factory building steam tractors that no one has built in a half century.

[vtsnowedin]

I don't see a significant return of steel.

Right we will go all the way through the Bronze Age and onto a new stone age.