PowerSwitch

Posted: **12 Jan 2010, 05:49**

Culture Change - 10/01/10

When fossil fuels begin to vanish, the first sign of the times will not be made of cardboard and propped up in front of an empty gas pump. The sign will be the flickering bulb in the ceiling, because electricity is always the weakest link in the synergistic triad that includes fossil fuels and metals.

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Posted: **12 Jan 2010, 06:33**

Scary article.

Access to clean drinking water and prevention of water-borne infection are aspects that don't seem to get the planning attention they deserve.

My priorities during the rapid breakdown of our current socio-economic system would be something like this:

Water
Food
Energy (primarily electricity, then cooking/heating gas, then transport fuel)
Hygiene
Administration
Repairs
Adaptation
Manufacture
Trade

with these interspersed at the bottom of the above list:

Planning
Health (preventative)
Education
Entertainment

Posted: **12 Jan 2010, 14:55**

What a lot of total bollocks.
It sickens me beyond belief how many times you see dieoff shite regurgitated on the web.

Does no one have an actual brain to do thinking for themselves?

Are today's people only capable of STUDYING and not capable of ANALYSIS?

Shakes head in disbelief.

Posted: **12 Jan 2010, 15:47**

fifthcolumn wrote:What a lot of total bollocks.
It sickens me beyond belief how many times you see dieoff shite regurgitated on the web.

Does no one have an actual brain to do thinking for themselves?

Are today's people only capable of STUDYING and not capable of ANALYSIS?

Shakes head in disbelief.

Globally you are right FC ... the world economy has HUGE inertai, and the world is a BIG place with LOTS of resources.

However locally - cold weather plus an Alky-Ada bomb or two could close the whole of the UK down.

Posted: **12 Jan 2010, 15:59**

They don't do bombing in cold weather. Sissies.

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 00:08**

fifthcolumn wrote:What a lot of total bollocks.
It sickens me beyond belief how many times you see dieoff shite regurgitated on the web.

Does no one have an actual brain to do thinking for themselves?

Are today's people only capable of STUDYING and not capable of ANALYSIS?

Shakes head in disbelief.

FC, I would guess that 85% of people do not really have a brain and/or think for themselves any more. A die-off of some degree will likely occur, unfortunately.

Stop thinking of these articles and analysis in terms of yourself and start thinking of them in terms of Joe Blogs who lives in the cities and no longer really thinks too much!

The people on here are not part of the 85% and thats where you seem to mis-understand what is being predicted or postulated in the various articles. Just because you can be sure it doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean that others will not suffer badly when the unexpected happens and our sophisticated, complex systems start to fail and the dominoes start falling......

To be honest if you can't see this , then maybe I am over-rating your intelligence - but I don't think so.

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 00:19**

snow hope wrote: FC, I would guess that 85% of people do not really have a brain and/or think for themselves any more.

Don't disagree. Thinking is yet another skill that has been outsourced. All that has been left is shopping.

A die-off of some degree will likely occur, unfortunately.

Maybe, maybe not.
I can think of several scenarios, however, where any putative dieoff is hardly noticeable.
It's also worth pointing out that ecosystem degradation is not all the way to zero. We humans have a tendency to keep around the species we can make use of in the environments we have degraded from fully biodiverse down to managed environments.

The people on here are not part of the 85% and thats where you seem to mis-understand what is being predicted or postulated in the various articles.

I don't misunderstand. I'm saying that the author of the article is the one who cannot think for him/herself.

Just because you can be sure it doesn't apply to you, doesn't mean that others will not suffer badly when the unexpected happens

Of course. The unprepared always get it in the neck when black swans fly by.

and our sophisticated, complex systems start to fail and the dominoes start falling......

The dominoes may not fall everywhere and they may not fall hard enough for anyone to even notice.

Take, for example, kids coming out of university in five years. Many of them can't afford cars and may never be able to. Will they notice that the world has changed? For them the world will remain the same.
To be honest if you can't see this , then maybe I am over-rating your intelligence - but I don't think so.[/quote]

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 00:52**

FC see http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/vie ... highlight= which illustrates the fragility of the system, at least in the UK.

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 01:24**

foodimista wrote:.........
[*]Energy (primarily electricity, then cooking/heating gas, then transport fuel)

I'd go for cooking fuel first as you can, after all, cook during the day when you can see. You could die of starvation looking for a source of electricity to see by to cook at night.

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 07:13**

fifthcolumn wrote:Thinking is yet another skill that has been outsourced. All that has been left is shopping.

kenneal wrote:
foodimista wrote:.........
[*]Energy (primarily electricity, then cooking/heating gas, then transport fuel)
I'd go for cooking fuel first as you can, after all, cook during the day when you can see. You could die of starvation looking for a source of electricity to see by to cook at night.

Yes, but without electricity, what happens to all the food in the freezer at home and in shops? And how does one get the tins open?

I was thinking in terms of a rapid breakdown. In the long term, yes, cooking and heating are most important, whether provided by gas or electricity or wood or enhanced solar.

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 12:56**

foodimista wrote: And how does one get the tins open?

I've never owned an electric tin opener. I like my labour saving devices but the labour involved in opening a tine always seemed negligable.

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 15:56**

We once had a very enjoyable week in a gite in Cornwall (sorry there's no English word for it!). Brought some of our own food for the first evening, when we knew everything would be closed.

Bloody ransacked the kitchen looking for the tin-opener dinneye?? After about 2 hours one of the smaller Renewables asks "what's that funny thing next to the cooker?" and blow me 'twas an electric tin-opener! I'd never seen one before. But people with injured hands need holidays too.

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 16:30**

extractorfan wrote:
foodimista wrote: And how does one get the tins open?
I've never owned an electric tin opener. I like my labour saving devices but the labour involved in opening a tine always seemed negligable.

In the absence of a non electric tin opener, tins can be opened with the tin opening tool found on most Swiss army knives, no home or vehicle or toolbox should be without one, though regretably the legality of carrying a swiss army knife is now doubtful.

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 17:38**

when the lights go off and you have a real crash

Id say the main thing your going to need is guns and family members or militia members prepared to defend you .

I would imagine a series of ineffective attempts at government on a national scale then warlord-ism on the local scale after national government is shattered .

I believe in die-off , I haven't seen anything that makes me think jay hansen isn't going to be proved right.

fast crash and a descent into barbarism I'm not sure of the exact timing but thats the most likely end .

Posted: **13 Jan 2010, 17:48**

jonny2mad wrote:when the lights go off and you have a real crash

Id say the main thing your going to need is guns and family members or militia members prepared to defend you .

I would imagine a series of ineffective attempts at government on a national scale then warlord-ism on the local scale after national government is shattered .

I believe in die-off , I haven't seen anything that makes me think jay hansen isn't going to be proved right.

fast crash and a descent into barbarism I'm not sure of the exact timing but thats the most likely end .

Oh, for goodness sake ....

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