Illegal to collect rain water

Quintus · Post by **Quintus** » 05 Dec 2009, 04:20

Browsing through various websites on green living I keep coming up with references to areas in the world where, supposedly, it has been made illegal to collect rain water – the claim usually is that the rights have been sold to a water company. It seemed so unlikely I kept ignoring it. A few examples I recall include some Australian councils, some areas in the USA, parts of Bolivia - and I even noticed a reference to a water company in the UK claiming something similar when the company checked up on someone who’s water consumption dropped suddenly.

Ring any bells with anyone else?

"Colorado Water Law requires that precipitation fall to the ground, run off and into the river of the watershed where it fell. Because rights to water are legally allocated in this state, an individual may not capture and use water to which he/she does not have a right."
http://www.greenlivingtips.com/blogs/28 ... anity.html

But it’s prudent to consider the viability of a personal water supply… one partially or even wholly free from dependence on government agencies and associated fees. Rainwater collection is an obvious one, although in some parts of the world (certain American states, for example), the government has deemed rainwater collection illegal. http://thriftyliving.net/news/?p=62

Further thought - if “free water” can be made illegal, is it conceivable that “free food” or “free energy” could go the same way one day?

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 05 Dec 2009, 07:10

During the drought in the 80s my father, who is a plumber, rigged up a system for collecting the water from his roof and using it to water the flowers during the hosepipe ban.

He was photographed from a helicopter and given an £80.00 fine for using a hosepipe. When he explained that it was from water from the roof the reply was that the water belonged to the water company by law.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 05 Dec 2009, 09:15

If the water company own it, they can bloody well stop dropping it on my land

I suppose the chemical and energy industries could argue that we're stealing their intellectual property too, because of all the crap they put into the atmosphere that falls with the rain. Like Monsanto are supposed to have done to farmers with their GM seed, when it blew into neighbouring fields

.

Can anyone recommend a source of IBC containers in West Wales? I'll have a big roof that will easily fill loads of them?

2 As and a B · Post by **2 As and a B** » 05 Dec 2009, 13:00

So how come water butts are on open sale?

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 05 Dec 2009, 13:31

Quintus, you are spot on re. Bolivia. The "World" Bank forced Bolivia to privatise its water services in return for a rip-off loan. The American-based private company proceeded to make collection of rainwater by Bolivia's impoverished citizens illegal.

There's an account of this in the excellent documentary film "The Corporation", along with lots of other depressing stuff.

madibe · Post by **madibe** » 05 Dec 2009, 15:25

Foodinstar wrote:

So how come water butts are on open sale?

Cannabis is not legal but you can buy a bong at any good head shoppe

contadino · Post by **contadino** » 05 Dec 2009, 15:33

Ludwig wrote:There's an account of this in the excellent documentary film "The Corporation", along with lots of other depressing stuff.

It was covered with slightly less accuracy in Quantum of Solace too. They didn't cover the civil unrest which AFAIK bought about the end of the deal, and returned water to near-original prices.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 05 Dec 2009, 15:53

ziggy12345 wrote:He was photographed from a helicopter and given an £80.00 fine for using a hosepipe. When he explained that it was from water from the roof the reply was that the water belonged to the water company by law.

I do not believe it.
Nothing illegal about collecting rainwater, or even taking it out of your well. You need an abstraction licence from the Environment Agency if you want it for non-domestic purposes such as agricultural irrigation.

caspian · Post by **caspian** » 05 Dec 2009, 18:34

JohnB wrote:Can anyone recommend a source of IBC containers in West Wales? I'll have a big roof that will easily fill loads of them?

We got ours from a local agricultural auction. They had about 30 of them but we only needed one. We rigged it up to the downpipe from the roof, and the first time it rained heavily the 1000 litre tank filled in a single afternoon.

Mind you, I don't know if we actually needed it, because west Wales is hardly short of water

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 05 Dec 2009, 18:44

caspian wrote:
JohnB wrote:Can anyone recommend a source of IBC containers in West Wales? I'll have a big roof that will easily fill loads of them?
We got ours from a local agricultural auction. They had about 30 of them but we only needed one. We rigged it up to the downpipe from the roof, and the first time it rained heavily the 1000 litre tank filled in a single afternoon.

Mind you, I don't know if we actually needed it, because west Wales is hardly short of water

I was thinking of collecting it to water greenhouses and polytunnels, with the surplus possibly topping up ponds, maybe for aquaculture. As the house probably has no foundations, and as we're getting so much rain, I wonder if it's also a good idea to get the water as far away from the house as possible.

Anyway, I fancy the idea of creating some sort of clever irrigation system

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 05 Dec 2009, 18:47

The cheek of it, eh?

They're talking about re-introducing water rates here in Ireland so don't go giving them yet more ideas on how to empty ordinary folks' pockets.

How they will deal with the majority of rural people who, like ourselves, have their own wells (dug and maintained at quite an expense by each of us) I don't know yet.

Charging for rainwater; the bastards. Do they tax the sunshine in Spain?

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 05 Dec 2009, 20:32

Yorkshire water, bless 'em. want us to collect rainwater for gardens and flog subsidised water-butts. It replenishes groundwater supplies, reduces the amount of water they have to process (most people here aren't on meters), and saves them brass.

Post by **adam2** » 05 Dec 2009, 21:06

Some water companies have argued that the use of rainwater for showering, laundry or toilet flushing should be prohibited, or at least charged for.
They point out that the charge for water supply includes sewage disposal, it being assumed that the volume of sewage produced is related to the volume of water supplied.

Someone useing rainwater for domestic purposes, could reduce theire metered water bill to a very low figure, but would still produce the same amount of sewage, that needs treating at the company expense.
It is therefore argued that such use of rainwater should be subjected to a charge, or fee.

If surface water and foul water are collected seperatly, then this argument may have some merit, since the water company are loosing water revenue, but still having to treat the sewage.

In many districts however, foul water and surface water are both conveyed in the same sewer, and in such cases it could be argued that say 1,000L of rain water falling on a roof, costs exactly the same to dispose of regardless as to wether it runs straight from roof to sewer, or via a holding tank and a shower or WC.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 05 Dec 2009, 21:41

The house I'm buying has mains water, but foul and surface water doesn't drain to a public sewer. There's a septic tank. The water rates are currently £150 a year, and there are no sewerage charges. So I imagine that the water company wouldn't be bothered about rain water, and it's best to treat it in a way that makes it drain away slowly. So making as much use of it as possible makes sense.

I wonder how much I could get the charges down if I had a meter, and only used the mains for drinking water.

Would that set up mean that grey water goes to the septic tank, or a soakaway?

Neily at the peak · Post by **Neily at the peak** » 06 Dec 2009, 11:48

From a holiday to the Scilly Isles last year, I understand that there is no mains water and everyone collects their own! The Scillies are still part of Cornwall so I wonder what South West Water's position is on this?

Neil