PowerSwitch

The Independent - 21/02/09

Times are tough, so is it worth emigrating? Kate Hughes looks at possible exit strategies.

The interest on your savings is minuscule, your pension pot has been hammered, and the value of your house is plunging. You might be made redundant – and, to cap it all, we’ve had the coldest winter in 30 years. In short, life in Britain isn’t looking great. This may be a worldwide wipeout, too, but there could be a few safer, if not entirely safe, havens to run to with what’s left of your wealth.

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Too late for me I'm afraid. I've retired and have already nailed my colours to the mast in the West of England. Better the devil etc..

No mention of Canada on the list, that would be my choice.

Funny we completely discounted Canada for all sorts of reasons...

Isn't it more about moving to a situation that's more sustainable and self sufficient though?

Wherever you live if you have high debt and are totally dependant on what you can buy and your income your situation remains the same, whereas if you move to somewhere throw off your debt and allow yourself the opportunity to be slightly more self sufficient you're in a better place?

dotty wrote:Isn't it more about moving to a situation that's more sustainable and self sufficient though?

Wherever you live if you have high debt and are totally dependant on what you can buy and your income your situation remains the same, whereas if you move to somewhere throw off your debt and allow yourself the opportunity to be slightly more self sufficient you're in a better place?

Yes, you're right....but....the tax and regulatory burden in the UK makes self-sufficiency even more difficult.

Paying £300/year for council tax is a massive problem if your annual income is, say £1000. Paying £20 for the documents for a pig is a big issue if you're receiving no income from those animals. Spending days filling out documents for DEFRA isn't an option when you work 7 days a week, dawn to dusk, keeping your smallholding running.

Although, as I've said many times before on this forum...from what I've seen, moving away from a country because you perceive the grass to be greener abroad is not the right thing to do.

dotty wrote:Isn't it more about moving to a situation that's more sustainable and self sufficient though?

Wherever you live if you have high debt and are totally dependant on what you can buy and your income your situation remains the same, whereas if you move to somewhere throw off your debt and allow yourself the opportunity to be slightly more self sufficient you're in a better place?

Yeah I totally agree with that. The other major consideration though would have to be avoiding war zones. The next big war is likely to be nuclear so I'd try to be well out of the way. Canada is too close to the US for my liking.

I reckon New Zealand might be the place.

Sorry Contadino...I meant in terms of moving abroad

The thing is that if you're living in the UK in a city on an average income the chances of finding and being able to afford a rural idyll there are pretty remote. In that sense the grass in most of europe is most definitely greener IMO.

Should I suppose confess to having left the UK a good few years ago. Having lived in south east London for many years and only managed to acquire enough capital to pay for a deposit on our council flat which would have saddled us with a mortgage of 180,000 pounds We bought what was little more than a shed in France, in one of the poorest and least visited bits...But it came with a chunk of land and meant being mortgage free. I wouldn't say it's been easy and we've had to make lifestyle choices that many would find unacceptable. The flip side is that the grass is very green...I'd like to say that I saw the current financial situation coming but if I did it was only intuitively. If we had have done the 'sensible' thing as friends advised at the time I really think we would have been up the creek without a paddle right now. As it is although things are tight here our income needs are low and we're very very used to living frugally

dotty wrote:...our income needs are low and we're very very used to living frugally

Possibly one of the most sensible courses of action ever mentioned on PS.

Although, as I've said many times before on this forum...from what I've seen, moving away from a country because you perceive the grass to be greener abroad is not the right thing to do.

Depends where you move, and if you're realistic about your requirements.
You cant live on pennies in a country with any sort of none income based tax, like council tax, or "fee's".
But it couldnt work in a land tax environment either, because the plan appears to be to own land and not use it productivly.

James Lovelock was interviewed on Radio 4 this morning, and he was saying that if/when the temperature rises that the UK will be a good place to be, because the climate will be fine here and we'll still be able to grow food.

I still think the ocean 'conveyor belt' will slow or shut down, though, plunging Britain in to another [little] ice age.

He also mentioned Canada would be a good place to be in a warming world. (And won't be affected by the ocean currents).

That wasn't all that Lovelock said. His view is that the British Isles may be one of the view parts of the globe that keep a comfortable climate, along with parts of Canada, Russia, Japan and New Zealand but that we had better get ready for immigrants fleeing the uninhabitable parts. He also said that, although it was impossible to reliably forecast, he expected global population might be just one billion by the end of the century.

Apologies, I didn't have time to write a complete transctipt of the interview.

biffvernon wrote:That wasn't all that Lovelock said. His view is that the British Isles may be one of the view parts of the globe that keep a comfortable climate, along with parts of Canada, Russia, Japan and New Zealand but that we had better get ready for immigrants fleeing the uninhabitable parts. He also said that, although it was impossible to reliably forecast, he expected global population might be just one billion by the end of the century.

I heard that, but if this is one of the few habitable parts of the planet, and there are even more people here, how do they get fed?

Eat each other?

Eternal Sunshine wrote:Eat each other?

Dilbert.com

I don't have all the answers to this but we do have an interesting perspective on this as we return to the UK in the next fortnight. I'd take this list with a pinch of salt.

So New Zealand is doing "OK" but Australia isn't? That's an interesting decoupling of reality- Australia isn't going to have a fun ride, but NZ's economy is intimately linked to Australia's success and was already pretty stuffed before Oz started to feel impacted.

And Brazil is a good spot to go to? Is that just because the gangs won't get any worse during the recession?

I've yet to hear of somewhere sensible to move to - my thoughts are . . . live frugally wherever you are. Integrate completely, so you don't standout as the obvious scapegoat in any trouble. In short, stay home, near friends and family where you can all help each other.

just my 2c.