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BBC News - 24/01/09

Charities and eyesight specialists are calling on the government to halt its plans to phase out the sale of traditional light bulbs.

Campaigners want retailers to disregard a promise to phase out the incandescent bulbs by 2012.

They say replacement lower energy bulbs do not provide enough light, causing problems for people with poor vision.

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What does the panel think?

Surely this should have been considered and planned for before announcing it, or suitable bulbs should be available before they're banned. It's probably the usual lack of joined up thinking.

do not provide enough light

I agree - if you listen to the manufactures they say a 15W CFL is the same as a 75W incandescent, that 20W = 100W, 12W = 60W.

This 5:1 ratio is wrong in my opinion and the single biggest screw up by the lightbulb industry in the last decade or so. I use at least a 4:1 ratio, using 25W CFL in place of 100W and have no complaints about light output. If the companies hadn't quite so optimistic in the equivalences people would not have been disappointed and take-up would have been far higher, far outstripping the slightly reduced energy savings.

That's true - 4:1 seem about right in my experience. Also, there is a lot of variation in the light quality - with no indication on the packet. I have one bulb which is a very bright blue/white colour, and others that look the same but give a much warmer yellow light. There seems an element of pot luck as to what you get.

The ratios are pure marketing hype. Never believe adverts.

I have heard that the mercury content of these is quite large. I broke one once and there was a cloud of white dust. If I break one now I will leave the room for at least half an hour

The white dust is the phosphor lining ... a rare earth blend, but not too toxic as far as I know!

http://www.electrochem.org/dl/interface ... s48-51.pdf

Vortex wrote:The white dust is the phosphor lining ... a rare earth blend, but not too toxic as far as I know!

I assumed this was the stuff that coated the inside of the glass. Maybe the mercury is in vapour form.

Jakell wrote:I have heard that the mercury content of these is quite large. I broke one once and there was a cloud of white dust. If I break one now I will leave the room for at least half an hour

The amount of mercury in compact fluorescents is less than the additional mercury that goes up a coal power station's chimney as it generates the additional electricity to run an incandescent bulb. Also, the mercury from coal burn freely enters the environment whereas the majority of the smaller amount in CFLs remains in its sealed glass container.

clv101 wrote:

Jakell wrote:I have heard that the mercury content of these is quite large. I broke one once and there was a cloud of white dust. If I break one now I will leave the room for at least half an hour

The amount of mercury in compact fluorescents is less than the additional mercury that goes up a coal power station's chimney as it generates the additional electricity to run an incandescent bulb. Also, the mercury from coal burn freely enters the environment whereas the majority of the smaller amount in CFLs remains in its sealed glass container.

I'm not sure about amounts of mercury. I've just got a thing about mercury in general.
I've had one or two disagreements with my dentist about mercury. I think he's miffed about that extra ear he grew after removing my mercury fillings

Many lamp light outputs do seem to be are over stated. I suspect the issue is the old lighting one of efficacy versus efficiency and is related to the different colour ranges from incandescent to CFL types.
If you buy decent brands of CFLs they should state a three number color code of the colour temperature. Usually on the end of the box and on the rating marking on the integrated gear. The coding is the same as non integrated CFLs (TC-DEL and similar) and these generally come in colors 827, 830 and 840, 827 is a pleasant warm white. I have a couple of Osram lamps in the color and find it quire pleasant for most uses.
The mercury content of all lamps is variable depending on brands but can not exceed 5mg (ROHS limit) per lamp. Some of the manufacturers produce lamps at around 1.4mg again this data is for non-integrated CFL we don't use integrated lamps in professional luminaires. It is harder to produce low mercury lamps so the costs are higher and production is more difficult to ramp up.
If you break a lamp the mercury is usually visible in the broken glass. Clear the area, pickup the glass, duct tape is your friend, use cardboard to pickup any visible mercury beads. Tape it all into a bag and dispose of as you should a lamp at end of life. If you break it on carpet the I'd recommend dumping it, again the are around the breakage should be treated as if it were a lamp.

revdode wrote: If you break a lamp the mercury is usually visible in the broken glass. Clear the area, pickup the glass, duct tape is your friend, use cardboard to pickup any visible mercury beads. Tape it all into a bag and dispose of as you should a lamp at end of life. If you break it on carpet the I'd recommend dumping it, again the are around the breakage should be treated as if it were a lamp.

Wow, I didn't know the mercury was enough to form visible beads. Will mercury beads soak into cardboard,? from what I've seen balls of mercury seem pretty impervous and usually need to be vacuumed up. Is it possible to put some sort of powder down to absorb the mercury and then vacuum that up. Dumping your carpet seems a pretty serious option.

revdode wrote:If you break a lamp the mercury is usually visible in the broken glass. Clear the area, pickup the glass, duct tape is your friend, use cardboard to pickup any visible mercury beads. Tape it all into a bag and dispose of as you should a lamp at end of life. If you break it on carpet the I'd recommend dumping it, again the are around the breakage should be treated as if it were a lamp.

No doubt this is good advice, but we all know that 99% of the population won't do any of this. They'll sweep it up with a dust pan and brush and throw into the kitchen bin.

Ben wrote:

revdode wrote:If you break a lamp the mercury is usually visible in the broken glass. Clear the area, pickup the glass, duct tape is your friend, use cardboard to pickup any visible mercury beads. Tape it all into a bag and dispose of as you should a lamp at end of life. If you break it on carpet the I'd recommend dumping it, again the are around the breakage should be treated as if it were a lamp.

No doubt this is good advice, but we all know that 99% of the population won't do any of this. They'll sweep it up with a dust pan and brush and throw into the kitchen bin.

Cripes Ben! you've even got one as your avatar. Careful now !

Jakell wrote: Cripes Ben! you've even got one as your avatar. Careful now !

As it happens, I've just changed my avatar