Launch of The immigrant War

[RenewableCandy]

For some, sure, but RC is undoubtedly correct in saying that some people are 'able' but unmotivated. Anyone who has spent any time in a teaching environment know that students' results don't correlate perfectly with ability - motivation and interest in the subject play a huge role.

Without doubt but these tests do not require learning or revision or effort. They are as easy as breathing.

I don't know where to start. Trying not to be facetious here but, JSD, do you remember school at all? Didn't you ever notice there were people who were crap at tests but who could still, for example, understand odds in betting, or follow complicated plotlines on TV, and the like? Didn't you stop to wonder why they're bad at the one but good at the other? Perhaps you never found people interesting enough to try and understand why they do things the way they do. I'm by no means fantastic at understanding people, but even I got that far.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

For some, sure, but RC is undoubtedly correct in saying that some people are 'able' but unmotivated. Anyone who has spent any time in a teaching environment know that students' results don't correlate perfectly with ability - motivation and interest in the subject play a huge role.

Without doubt but these tests do not require learning or revision or effort. They are as easy as breathing.

I don't know where to start. Trying not to be facetious here but, JSD, do you remember school at all? Didn't you ever notice there were people who were crap at tests but who could still, for example, understand odds in betting, or follow complicated plotlines on TV, and the like? Didn't you stop to wonder why they're bad at the one but good at the other? Perhaps you never found people interesting enough to try and understand why they do things the way they do. I'm by no means fantastic at understanding people, but even I got that far.

Well all that might be true but it's irrelevant to the discussion of IQ tests.
Following complicated inter-personal plot lines in TV soaps is something that many women are naturally good at. They don't try to be, they just are. I can barely recognise the individual actors let alone follow their sub plots.

And yet you suggest that those with a high IQ need to be motivated to perform well on an IQ test.

They may well need to be motivated to perform well on anything else or to apply themselves or to achieve anything but on that test...on that test they are king simply because it is effortless.

What many people found hard at school was writing essays.

[RenewableCandy]

Without doubt but these tests do not require learning or revision or effort. They are as easy as breathing.

I don't know where to start. Trying not to be facetious here but, JSD, do you remember school at all? Didn't you ever notice there were people who were crap at tests but who could still, for example, understand odds in betting, or follow complicated plotlines on TV, and the like? Didn't you stop to wonder why they're bad at the one but good at the other? Perhaps you never found people interesting enough to try and understand why they do things the way they do. I'm by no means fantastic at understanding people, but even I got that far.

Well all that might be true but it's irrelevant to the discussion of IQ tests.
Following complicated inter-personal plot lines in TV soaps is something that many women are naturally good at. They don't try to be, they just are. I can barely recognise the individual actors let alone follow their sub plots.

And yet you suggest that those with a high IQ need to be motivated to perform well on an IQ test.

I was thinking more about crime/detective progs than soaps, but anyway.

A few years ago someone decided to test the effect of motivation on physical strength performance tests. Now I always thought that physical strength was pretty much either there or not-there at any given time. So, they video'ed people trying to lift something as high as they could (iirc). The people put in an effort because they were being filmed and didn't want to look pathetic.

Then someone came on and cheered/cajoled them along, offered them a bottle of bubbly if they could get to a certain level, said they looked great, etc etc. The effect was dramatic. And there I was thinking, well you're either strong or you're not.

I'm built like a rag doll. But if I ever need to shift something heavy I think of those people. It often works. OTOH I also know what lack of motivation feels like. There are certain things I simply can't do, even though they probably wouldn't be that difficult for me if I actually tried: my heart just isn't in it.

[Aurora]

Seven pages and counting with J2M proving that bigotry is alive and well in the UK. Nothing changes.

I am so pleased that I came to my senses last year when I decided to stop contributing to the PowerSwitch forum.

What a complete waste of time and effort.

Anyway folks, must go - the real world beckons.

[Little John]

Seven pages and counting with J2M proving that bigotry is alive and well in the UK. Nothing changes.

I am so pleased that I came to my senses last year when I decided to stop contributing to the PowerSwitch forum.

What a complete waste of time and effort.

Anyway folks, must go - the real world beckons.

Now...now...Stop telling fibs Aurora. We both know you went to enough trouble to make that graphic to render somewhat dubious your protestations of not wanting to contribute to Powerswitch ....

[JavaScriptDonkey]

I'm built like a rag doll. But if I ever need to shift something heavy I think of those people. It often works. OTOH I also know what lack of motivation feels like. There are certain things I simply can't do, even though they probably wouldn't be that difficult for me if I actually tried: my heart just isn't in it.

I completely agree about the power of motivation but I don't think it applies here. We can be motivated to run faster for a short while or to to put extra effort in to learning or studying but I don't think we can be motivated to be taller.

IQ is inherent.

[clv101]

IQ is inherent.

It depends if you can separate 'IQ' the abstract concept from the IQ the score on a test. I'd agree with you that in the abstract concept motivation doesn't apply here - but since it's impossible to gauge IQ without some sort of proactive testing that's irreverent and motivation will always play a role.

[Little John]

I'm built like a rag doll. But if I ever need to shift something heavy I think of those people. It often works. OTOH I also know what lack of motivation feels like. There are certain things I simply can't do, even though they probably wouldn't be that difficult for me if I actually tried: my heart just isn't in it.

I completely agree about the power of motivation but I don't think it applies here. We can be motivated to run faster for a short while or to to put extra effort in to learning or studying but I don't think we can be motivated to be taller.

IQ is inherent.

As a matter of researched fact, IQ is approximately 70% heritable and approximately 30% environmentally determined. And we can only state that as being so when averaged across large populations. When it comes to an individual, the ratio can vary wildly. Even more so in men than women, as it happens.

[jonny2mad]

Seven pages and counting with J2M proving that bigotry is alive and well in the UK. Nothing changes.

I am so pleased that I came to my senses last year when I decided to stop contributing to the PowerSwitch forum.

What a complete waste of time and effort.

Anyway folks, must go - the real world beckons.

I think Im only on about five pages,but you need to see the glass as half full not half empty, look at the work of biff and others opposing me they are there consistant, like attack bears .

Anyway hope your well, take care people have different points of view

[vtsnowedin]

[Then someone came on and cheered/cajoled them along, offered them a bottle of bubbly if they could get to a certain level, said they looked great, etc etc. The effect was dramatic. And there I was thinking, well you're either strong or you're not.

.

So your telling me the scantily clad pretty cheerleaders actually do help the boys team win. Funny that as they have pretty much abandoned cheer leading squads in small schools as the girls have their own team from Title 9 and there isn't enough time or girls to do both.

[RenewableCandy]

Cheerleaders won't cut the mustard. It's got to be personal.

[kenneal - lagger]

That's one of the reasons why we get married isn't it? Your own personal cheer leader or something to that effect!

[RenewableCandy]

I'll drink to that! Which, erm, brings us back to immigrants...

[kenneal - lagger]

Are you insinuating that immigrants are drunkards?

[RenewableCandy]

No, but you know I'm married to one. Erm, immigrant, that is, not drunkard