Basic Citizens' Income

[kenneal - lagger]

....At the rate that sea level is actually rising just who will stand fast until they are chin deep?

I doubt that the 163 million people of Bangladesh will actually wait until they are chin deep in water before they attack the wall that India has constructed along their mutual border nor will they be welcomed into Myanmar from whence the Rohingya minority have just been brutally expelled.

[vtsnowedin]

....At the rate that sea level is actually rising just who will stand fast until they are chin deep?

I doubt that the 163 million people of Bangladesh will actually wait until they are chin deep in water before they attack the wall that India has constructed along their mutual border nor will they be welcomed into Myanmar from whence the Rohingya minority have just been brutally expelled.

Well they better start building dikes and become the Netherlands of Asia.

[kenneal - lagger]

One of the poorest countries in the world spend hundreds of billions of dollars to try and keep up with rising world sea levels caused by the industrialised countries? Would the US, as a major contributor to their problem chip in? With Trump in charge I doubt it. With anyone in charge I doubt it.

To be any use at all the dykes would have to be at least seven metres high and with a country three and a half times as big with dozens of separate river estuaries against three major rivers in Holland the cost would be enormous. The concrete works involved at river mouths are extremely complicated and expensive. And all that at seven metres high might last to the end of the century.

And what would the economist in you say about spending all that money on a bit of low value tropical farmland. Surely it would be better economics spend all that money to build such a wall around Manhattan Island?

[vtsnowedin]

It is their problem and they had best plan on dealing with it themselves. One bit that should encourage them is that the major part of dyke building in the Netherlands and the levies along the lower Mississippi were both completed in the nineteenth century with hand and animal power so much of the work needed can be accomplished without outside investment.
A properly built levee four meters high (first phase to be raised later if needed) with 'three-to-one' side slopes requires about 6000 cubic meters of fill per kilometer of length depending on top width. A workman with pick and shovel can excavate about one cubic meter of earth a day so a crew of a thousand men can build a kilometer of levee a week without using any fossil fuel.
Now when you consider that the average wage in Bangladesh is $60 a month you would get a labor cost of building these levees of $15,000 / KM.
Put a thousand work crews on it and employ a million men out of their 163 million and perhaps you could create a labor shortage and drive wages up a bit.
A thousand Kilometers of new levee a week ought to be able to keep up with sea level rise.

[kenneal - lagger]

You obviously haven't a clue what the coast line of Bangladesh looks like, VT. Have a look at this map and tell me whether they follow the coast with all the massive, complicated and expensive concrete works that the Dutch have installed at their river mouths or they build dykes up all the dozens of river channels for hundreds of miles.

Don't you think that the rich western countries that have been dumping their waste into the atmosphere for two hundred and fifty years or more and caused the problem that the Bangladeshis face now have a certain responsibility to help or does your Christianity not stretch that far?

Sorry but the URL function isn't working for some reason but cutting and pasting the URL works. If any of the other mods can see why it's not working and fix it I would be grateful.

[vtsnowedin]

You obviously haven't a clue what the coast line of Bangladesh looks like, VT. Have a look at this map and tell me whether they follow the coast with all the massive, complicated and expensive concrete works that the Dutch have installed at their river mouths or they build dykes up all the dozens of river channels for hundreds of miles.

Don't you think that the rich western countries that have been dumping their waste into the atmosphere for two hundred and fifty years or more and caused the problem that the Bangladeshis face now have a certain responsibility to help or does your Christianity not stretch that far?

Sorry but the URL function isn't working for some reason but cutting and pasting the URL works. If any of the other mods can see why it's not working and fix it I would be grateful.

You think I can't read a map and did not look at one before I posted that?
Of course their levee system will have to be extensive and involve thousands of miles of levees with gated through pipes to allow water to both come and go at appropriate times while keeping intruding seawater in the river channels and off the land. The actual needs and most cost effective construction options would have to be worked out by local engineers based on actual site specific conditions. They need to do that research and get on with it.
Should the West be held morally responsible for the sea level rise?
Probably.
Will they actually contribute to the cost?
Most certainly not.
I'm agnostic if not totally non religious by the way.

[woodburner]

Kenneal-lagger the URL tool seems to have a glitch.

[kenneal - lagger]

Kenneal-lagger the URL tool seems to have a glitch.

I've just tested it with the URL for a Powerswitch page, which worked, so it seems to be OK, WB. It must be something in the actual URL itself. Sometimes it doesn't like the HTTP bit but it wan't that it this case.

[emordnilap]

Relevant.

"Well, how about we just ask the question, does the system even work?"

[Mr. Fox]

Kenneal-lagger the URL tool seems to have a glitch.

I've just tested it with the URL for a Powerswitch page, which worked, so it seems to be OK, WB. It must be something in the actual URL itself. Sometimes it doesn't like the HTTP bit but it wan't that it this case.

The phpbb2 software (over a decade out of date) can't cope with '@' or '!' when parsing urls - it does the same with brackets '( )'.

Best bet is to use a url shortening service - e.g. tinyurl or bitly.

Like so: This map

[RenewableCandy]

You might find the NHS approaches the insurance companies for payment.

While it is true that they can do this, apparently it's rarely seen through. Sorry I can only say 'I read it somewhere' and even that was years ago: it might have changed.

[woodburner]

Removed post as Mr. Fox had put up the bitly link.

[clv101]

A properly built levee four meters high (first phase to be raised later if needed) with 'three-to-one' side slopes requires about 6000 cubic meters of fill per kilometer of length depending on top width. A workman with pick and shovel can excavate about one cubic meter of earth a day so a crew of a thousand men can build a kilometer of levee a week without using any fossil fuel.

Now when you consider that the average wage in Bangladesh is $60 a month you would get a labor cost of building these levees of $15,000 / KM. Put a thousand work crews on it and employ a million men out of their 163 million and perhaps you could create a labor shortage and drive wages up a bit.
A thousand Kilometers of new levee a week ought to be able to keep up with sea level rise.

Interesting numbers. Million men on $60/month is less than $1bn a year and could build 4000km of 4m high levies? Bangladesh GDP around $250bn - and growing fast (~doubled in last decade). Many thousands of km of levies for few billions in a few years seems too good to be true. Does the concrete, machinery and pipework (for discharge) dramatically increase costs? Maybe someone wants paying for the land itself?

[vtsnowedin]

Even if the cost was double or triple with flood gates and drainage pipes included it would be worth their while to do it. As to the land it could remain in the farmers hands as the slopes would be suitable for grazing and the top of the levy would be the safest place for him to build his house and other buildings.

[vtsnowedin]

There is an earthen flood control dam a few miles from me that was built in the great depression(1933-1935) by the Bonus army which was a branch of the civilian conservation corps. The bonus army were all WW1 veterans and one unit was all Black from Virginia. When they arrived most of the children at the train station were looking at the first black men they had ever seen. The crew was 5000 men working with pick and shovel and some model A trucks and they built the dam 1460 feet long and 60 feet high for about four million dollars. Workmen were paid thirty dollars a month and were fed and housed in camps run by the US army.
While the CCC was in existence they built several dams and over a hundred miles of roads in Vermont including their bridges.
You can move a lot of earth with a gang of well fed laborers.