New coronavirus in/from China

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 09 Oct 2020, 16:38

More evidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0KyWBk ... ture=share

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 10 Oct 2020, 01:59

Little John wrote:
RevdTess wrote:There's nothing in the data presented that explains why hospital admissions and deaths were so high in April, but then dropped (halved) in May while cases stayed on a plateau. There's also nothing to explain why deaths have remained so low now even as cases have soared to the heavens. So we end up having to speculate.
Yes there is.

17,000 people died from the flu in England annually between 2014/15 and 2018/19 - with the yearly deaths varying widely from a high of 28,330 in 2014/15 to a low of 1,692 in 2018/19. Don't believe me? Check the data for yourself:

Well, to be clear the whole point of my post was that there's nothing in the govt coronavirus page I linked that explains the excess deaths in Spring vs Autumn. So we're left to speculate, which is fine - we can't do much else.

You're pulling in data from another website, no problem with that. I would do the same if I had access to data showing age of covid deaths or comorbidities etc.

Your hypothesis, if I'm reading it right, is that the extra covid deaths in the spring weren't actually caused by covid but were deaths from regular flu and other illnesses that were coincidental with covid infection. Is that what you're saying? Or are you saying they weren't covid infections at all, but just regular deaths wrongly blamed on covid?

stumuz1 · Post by **stumuz1** » 10 Oct 2020, 09:05

You are missed on this forum Tess.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 10 Oct 2020, 11:09

RevdTess wrote:
Little John wrote:
RevdTess wrote:There's nothing in the data presented that explains why hospital admissions and deaths were so high in April, but then dropped (halved) in May while cases stayed on a plateau. There's also nothing to explain why deaths have remained so low now even as cases have soared to the heavens. So we end up having to speculate.
Yes there is.

17,000 people died from the flu in England annually between 2014/15 and 2018/19 - with the yearly deaths varying widely from a high of 28,330 in 2014/15 to a low of 1,692 in 2018/19. Don't believe me? Check the data for yourself:
Well, to be clear the whole point of my post was that there's nothing in the govt coronavirus page I linked that explains the excess deaths in Spring vs Autumn. So we're left to speculate, which is fine - we can't do much else.

You're pulling in data from another website, no problem with that. I would do the same if I had access to data showing age of covid deaths or comorbidities etc.

Your hypothesis, if I'm reading it right, is that the extra covid deaths in the spring weren't actually caused by covid but were deaths from regular flu and other illnesses that were coincidental with covid infection. Is that what you're saying? Or are you saying they weren't covid infections at all, but just regular deaths wrongly blamed on covid?

No, I am not merely pulling data in from "another website". That is a lazy attempt, by you, to dismiss that data. The data I am using is from the Government's own statistics. "Full Fact" and "Worldometer" simply collate those facts, with full references given. Also, stop trying to muddy the water by implying you don't understand what I am "really saying". In turn, implying I have an "agenda" other than to simply present the facts. You may disagree with my analysis of those facts. In which case, be specific in terms of your criticism of that analysis instead of what you have just done. Which is to engage in vague hand-waving

To be absolutely crystal clear, we know, for a fact, that the number of Covid19 deaths have been inflated. Possibly massively. But, certainly by a significant amount.

It's also a fact that Covid has indeed killed some people directly or has been indirectly identified as a comorbidity in those death. However, that identification is seriously called into question since it is based on an extremely inaccurate Covid19 test.

But, what is also clear is that most of the people dying either directly of Covid19 or with it as a comorbidity were on death's door in any event and would have died of influenza/heart attack/stroke/cancer/other sometime this year.

We may deduce the above by the fact of the total death rate for this year, thus far, being barely above the annual average.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 10 Oct 2020, 14:18

A monstrous transformation of our societies all across the Western capitalist world is now underway via the lies and propaganda being peddled over "Covid19". Please read the following facts on this issue and then start to ask some hard questions.

17,000 people died from the flu in England annually between 2014/15 and 2018/19 - with the yearly deaths varying widely from a high of 28,330 in 2014/15 to a low of 1,692 in 2018/19.

Don't believe me? Check the data for yourself:

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus ... influenza/

This was due to an extremely mild influenza season last winter. Which, in turn, pointed to this year being another whopper for deaths as all of the "dry tinder" from last year succumbed this year. So, it is an extremely reasonable assumption to make that this year would have been up in the 30k range in any event.

Add in to that the massive fall in deaths by heart attack and stroke in 2020 thus far due to those otherwise statistically inevitable deaths being swapped over into the C19 column, it is also a reasonable assumption to make that this more than accounts for at least another 10k or so deaths attributed to the Covid19 column. Thus, the number of extra deaths would be marginal.

Which is exactly what has been seen.

This year's total deaths are barely above the average.

So, why did we have a relatively high death rate relative to infection rate in spring as compared to now?

Because you can't die twice. That's why.

Some more facts:

The forced wearing of masks has been predicated on the virtually evidence free assertion that Covid19 is widely asymptotically transmitted. But, that policy has failed in its own terms given when the mask policy was introduced and the consequent spike in infections.

Irrespective of the efficacy of the masks, the second spike in infection has NOT been accompanied by a second spike in deaths. Furthermore, this virtual complete lack of a second spike in deaths accompanying a second spike in infections is to be seen repeated all across Europe.

Don't believe me? Check the data for yourself.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Oh, but of course, we all being encouraged to shit our pants over "Long Covid" now aren't we. On that, a few more facts:

Normal influenza typically will leave people with symptoms for several days to several weeks after initial infection and, for a small minority of people - you know - old people - people with existing cardiovascular comorbidities - the symptoms can last for months.

Just like Covid19.

First we were told millions would die.

Then, when that ran out of steam, we were told our children would all die from "Kawasaki disease". Remember that?

Then we were forced to wear masks en-masse on the basis of entirely evidence free nonsense that Covid19 is aysmptomatically transmitted.

Don't believe me? Google to look for singe study showing systematic evidence of asymptomatic transmission. You wont find one. Because there isn't one. What you will find is lots of vague hand-waving by government talking heads. But, no solid evidence.

Also, now that everyone can see the number of deaths relative to infections is tiny, the new bogey man of "Long Covid" is being wheeled out.

People who continue to swallow this naked propaganda are fools, at best. Or, worse, cowards. Or, worse still, bourgeois and petite beurgois Remainers (here in the UK) who are secretly getting a hard on seeing all of the great unwashed being made to shut up and do as they are told again.

Either way, the Western ruling class, via its compliant governments both here and elsewhere, is using Covid19 as a means to reset our societies along totalitarian lines.

We can all get into a debate about why they are doing this. I have my own views on that and other people will have other views, no doubt. But, as important as that is, it is a secondary question. Right now, we need only concern ourselves with the facts. And the facts are clear. We are being lied to on a monstrous scale and all of the draconian lock-downs and stripping away of our civil liberties are based on those lies.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 10 Oct 2020, 16:58

In the US, big brother is watching you on the thunderbox. Need a dump - we have an app for that:

https://unlimitedhangout.com/2020/10/un ... n-advance/

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 11 Oct 2020, 16:29

Little John wrote:...................So, it is an extremely reasonable assumption to make that this year would have been up in the 30k range in any event..

It is not extremely reasonable to assume that. You chose that figure because it suites your narrative but the figure could be anything between 100,000 or more and nought because we don't know how people will react or how successful the vaccination program will be. It is likely to be within the range of previous figures which means it is likely to be anywhere between 1000 and 30,000 but where we won't know until the end of the winter. With large numbers of people self isolating the number could well be much lower but if the virus is allowed to let rip as you want the likelihood that more vulnerable people will be infected increases and the then likelihood that the health service could be overwhelmed also increases.

To risk tens of thousands of people's lives on your uneducated guess would not be something that most people would be willing to do.

This year's total deaths are barely above the average. ...................

Only based on a figure which you, personally have guesed at and which you chose because it suites your narrative.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 11 Oct 2020, 17:57

No guessing required.

Total annual deaths for UK over the last 5 years:

2015 - 529,655
2016 - 525,048
2017 - 533,253
2018 - 541,589
2019 - 530,841
2020 (thus far) - 453,803

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ndandwales

Post by **clv101** » 11 Oct 2020, 18:36

Next, you'll be telling us the Millennium bug wasn't an issue.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 11 Oct 2020, 18:59

clv101 wrote:Next, you'll be telling us the Millennium bug wasn't an issue.

Have you even bothered to get off you metaphorical arse and actually inspect the independently verifiable data I have linked to as opposed to engaging in bland insults and vague hand-waving?

No, of course you haven't.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 11 Oct 2020, 19:07

The government has just slipped this out with not a single piece of coverage in the MSM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdCM3DL ... ture=share

Basically, from next week, all covid19 mortalities and all flu mortalities will now be reported as a COMBINED report.

Fancy having a go at guessing guess why?

Here's a clue:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 11 Oct 2020, 19:30

meanwhile the WHO says not to lockdown:

https://www.zerohedge.com/medical/who-f ... -contagion

presumably the headless chickens will wait for the BBC version.

Post by **adam2** » 11 Oct 2020, 20:19

Little John wrote:No guessing required.

Total annual deaths for UK over the last 5 years:

2015 - 529,655
2016 - 525,048
2017 - 533,253
2018 - 541,589
2019 - 530,841
2020 (thus far) - 453,803

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ndandwales

If the death rate for the remainder of this year carries on as might be expected, that suggests a total for this calendar year of about 565,000, or higher than any recent year but only by a relatively small margin.

Not much accuracy can be claimed without knowing how many days are covered by "2020 so far"

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 11 Oct 2020, 20:50

If LJ's figure is to the end of September that gives an annual figure of 605,070, so considerably more than last year.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 11 Oct 2020, 20:55

adam2 wrote:
Little John wrote:No guessing required.

Total annual deaths for UK over the last 5 years:

2015 - 529,655
2016 - 525,048
2017 - 533,253
2018 - 541,589
2019 - 530,841
2020 (thus far) - 453,803

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ndandwales
If the death rate for the remainder of this year carries on as might be expected, that suggests a total for this calendar year of about 565,000, or higher than any recent year but only by a relatively small margin.

Not much accuracy can be claimed without knowing how many days are covered by "2020 so far"

Yes, and this is the point. Covid19 is real enough. And, being so, it is reasonable to suppose there is likely to be a higher than usual death count by the end of the year. But, nothing like the bullshit we are being served daily would suggest and even that slight rise will be comprised largely of people who would likely have died in the next, say, two years.

I am not saying losing up to two years off the end of your life is trivial. It is not. But, then, neither is the avoidance of that happening worth decimating an entire country's economy and condemning generations to come not yet even born to poverty and having to pay the debt down that has been incurred as a consequence.

However, it is not even inconceivable that the predicted slight rise in total deaths for this entire year implied by the current numbers could actually disappear as the death count, for the rest of the year, falls below the average due to the vast majority of the people who were likely to die this year from any number of causes, mostly related to old age, having already done so in the spring.

Either way, none of the above, in any way, provides any kind of justification for the stripping away of civil liberties that has gone on.

As for how far into 2020 I went, it was up to 1st of October since the last entry in the data set only covers up to that date. The data is in csv format and the link is here:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ndandwales