New coronavirus in/from China

stumuz1 · Post by **stumuz1** » 20 Jun 2020, 10:08

Mark wrote:
My only comment would be about your confidence in Brexit to change the situation.
I think that we'll just end up swapping Bulgarians for Indians or Nigerians....

You could be right. It was, in essence, a protest vote. However, my local MP is now a maths teacher from Surrey. I just have to change her mind about a subject. To use a financial metaphor, it increases the value of my vote.

Mark wrote: HMG will still want us to trade internationally and be 'competitive'...
The economy will still be controlled by Apple, Google, DODGY TAX AVOIDERS etc.
Our island mentality sometimes makes us want to pull up the drawbridge.....
But sadly, I don't think that we can divorce ourselves from globalisation....

Again, you are probably correct. But, the pandemic, the collapsing red wall, climate change, food security/scarcity may guide them to rebalance and make resilient the economy.

Mark wrote: We need a better taxation/welfare system to help the young boys/girls you mention.
And in this case, empowered/braver Regulators (HSE/EHOs), who are actually prepared to close down factories that flout the rules...

Yes to taxation/welfare.
As for the EHO's they really need their arses kicked. Care homes, meat packing plants are the most basic foreseeable known vectors of ill health and pestilence since year dot. It is at the beginning of their core training. They start with John Snow and cholera and work their way up the present time , by chronicled infection outbreaks.

You can just imagine the scene at EHO HQ, (which in Llangefni is less than 500 yards away from 2 sisters meat plant !)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFeVfwDvTyM

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 20 Jun 2020, 10:38

Little John wrote:If we end up swapping Bulgarians for Nigerians, Brexit and Trump will be as nothing to what comes next.

(Comment removed - K-L)

What about Hong Kong Chinese ?

Actually scrub that, they're mostly intelligent and well educated, so they'll be replacing our skilled workers whilst our underfunded education system produces the next generation of meat-packers.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 20 Jun 2020, 11:49

And a Halal meat plant - owned by Asda

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/why-weren-t-t ... 47540.html

Meanwhile, the gov still has not told ~2.5 million 'vulnerable' people what comes next. Boris told us 2 weeks ago that an announcement would be made. It wasn't. If we are allegedly too sick to leave our houses - what happens to work? Have any employers been told? They keep bullshitting that we are pensioners and the MSM scum will not grasp the issue.

stumuz1 · Post by **stumuz1** » 20 Jun 2020, 12:24

The local authorities knew from the beginning that covid was ripping through US meat packing plants for all the same reasons it is ripping through UK plants.

This is very basic EHO duties.

They have draconian powers to shut the plants down and isolate.

Why didn't they?

Post by **adam2** » 20 Jun 2020, 13:36

stumuz1 wrote:The local authorities knew from the beginning that covid was ripping through US meat packing plants for all the same reasons it is ripping through UK plants.

This is very basic EHO duties.

They have draconian powers to shut the plants down and isolate.

Why didn't they?

I cant speak for the situation in the USA, but over here I have little faith in EHOs and the like.
Most seem to have little knowledge of actual food hygiene, but concentrate instead on paperwork.
EHOs love inspecting log books and are easily impressed by good record keeping, even when a common sense inspection by myself would suggest obvious falsification.
In the good old days, EHOs would use a calibrated thermometer to check that fridges were maintained at the correct temperatures, these days they inspect the log book in which such temperatures are recorded.
In the good old days, the EHO would speak to individual members of staff to see if they had sufficient knowledge to handle food safely. These days they will inspect the staff training records.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 20 Jun 2020, 14:36

Catweazle wrote:
Little John wrote:If we end up swapping Bulgarians for Nigerians, Brexit and Trump will be as nothing to what comes next.

You just don't quite get it yet do you
What about Hong Kong Chinese ?

Actually scrub that, they're mostly intelligent and well educated, so they'll be replacing our skilled workers whilst our underfunded education system produces the next generation of meat-packers.

Nobody is going to object to highly skilled people form any part of the world coming here to work if their skills cannot be produced at home. For anyone else, it stops or, as I said, Trump and Brexit will be only the beginning.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 20 Jun 2020, 14:38

stumuz1 wrote:The local authorities knew from the beginning that covid was ripping through US meat packing plants for all the same reasons it is ripping through UK plants.

This is very basic EHO duties.

They have draconian powers to shut the plants down and isolate.

Why didn't they?

Perhaps fear of creating major food shortages?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 20 Jun 2020, 14:44

vtsnowedin wrote:
stumuz1 wrote:The local authorities knew from the beginning that covid was ripping through US meat packing plants for all the same reasons it is ripping through UK plants.

This is very basic EHO duties.

They have draconian powers to shut the plants down and isolate.

Why didn't they?
Perhaps fear of creating major food shortages?

yep

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 20 Jun 2020, 14:55

The lack of attention to details by EHOs was a result of the government defunding Local Authorities in the UK. Defunding resulted in fewer staff so those left behind didn't have time to do anything thoroughly.

How do I know? One of my daughters was an EHO and was always doing extra hours and still not able to do the job properly. As a result she left and is now doing Health and Safety work in schools. As a result of the covid return and all the H&S reports required they're short staffed and she's overworked again!!

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 20 Jun 2020, 15:35

Little John wrote:
Catweazle wrote:
Little John wrote:If we end up swapping Bulgarians for Nigerians, Brexit and Trump will be as nothing to what comes next.

You just don't quite get it yet do you
What about Hong Kong Chinese ?

Actually scrub that, they're mostly intelligent and well educated, so they'll be replacing our skilled workers whilst our underfunded education system produces the next generation of meat-packers.
Nobody is going to object to highly skilled people form any part of the world coming here to work if their skills cannot be produced at home. For anyone else, it stops or, as I said, Trump and Brexit will be only the beginning.

I think you'll find that a lot of people are going to object.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 20 Jun 2020, 16:39

Catweazle wrote:
Little John wrote:
Catweazle wrote: What about Hong Kong Chinese ?

Actually scrub that, they're mostly intelligent and well educated, so they'll be replacing our skilled workers whilst our underfunded education system produces the next generation of meat-packers.
Nobody is going to object to highly skilled people form any part of the world coming here to work if their skills cannot be produced at home. For anyone else, it stops or, as I said, Trump and Brexit will be only the beginning.
I think you'll find that a lot of people are going to object.

Oh yeah. Like who?

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 20 Jun 2020, 17:54

Little John wrote:
.......................I think you'll find that a lot of people are going to object.
Oh yeah. Like who?

The highly skilled people who will see there hourly rate dropping as building trades did when eastern Europeans builders came to this country.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 20 Jun 2020, 19:17

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Little John wrote:
.......................I think you'll find that a lot of people are going to object.
Oh yeah. Like who?
The highly skilled people who will see there hourly rate dropping as building trades did when eastern Europeans builders came to this country.

Or anyone else who fears being displaced by hard-working non-unionised workers with no ties to the local community.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 20 Jun 2020, 19:43

kenneal - lagger wrote:
Little John wrote:
.......................I think you'll find that a lot of people are going to object.
Oh yeah. Like who?
The highly skilled people who will see there hourly rate dropping as building trades did when eastern Europeans builders came to this country.

So will those highly skilled people be demonized over the several decades as knuckle dragging xenophobic racist morons then?

Besides which, if you read my post, I said no one will have a problem with highly skilled people from overseas filling jobs for which there is not the requisite skills in this country nor is there the reasonable possibility of people here being trained in those skills

If, however ,skilled people are brought in from overseas simply to save business the training costs and or drive down pay and conditions, then that is not acceptable any more than bringing in low skilled workers is.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 20 Jun 2020, 19:48

Catweazle wrote:
kenneal - lagger wrote:
Little John wrote:Oh yeah. Like who?
The highly skilled people who will see there hourly rate dropping as building trades did when eastern Europeans builders came to this country.
Or anyone else who fears being displaced by hard-working non-unionised workers with no ties to the local community.

Letting your class snobbery ooze out and show again there Catweazle. Must try harder.