New coronavirus in/from China

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 12 Jun 2020, 00:41

So what?

All that means is that Sweden has reached the point all the other Nordic countries must reach. And they have done so with fewer deaths than is the case for many lock down countries.

I ask again, what do you think the other Nordic Countries should do now?

Wait until the entire world has gained sufficient herd immunity in order for them to be able to unlock their countries by piggybacking on that herd immunity.

Wait until a mythical vaccine, that may not work, is produced?

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 12 Jun 2020, 00:54

Little John wrote:So what?

All that means is that Sweden has reached the point all the other Nordic countries must reach. And they have done so with fewer deaths than is the case for many lock down countries.

I ask again, what do you think the other Nordic Countries should do now?

Wait until the entire world has gained sufficient herd immunity in order for them to be able to unlock their countries by piggybacking on that herd immunity.

Wait until a mythical vaccine, that may not work, is produced?

What it probably means is that more people, 3 to 6 times more, have died in Sweden than would have if they had locked down like their neighbours.

You repeatedly ignore the fact that overwhelmed health services mean more deaths, despite people reminding you on this thread. If the spread of Covid19 can be slowed the health services will cope better, more people will get better treatment and a better outcome, the bonus is we get more time to develop effective treatment and obtain the necessary ppe and hardware.

The downside, obviously, is that it's screwing the economy which is going to lead to increased mortality / morbidity in many people.

It's a fine balance, which the worlds top medical brains are working on every day.

You'd see that if you weren't so wrapped up in your tinfoil.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 12 Jun 2020, 01:13

Catweazle wrote: It's a fine balance, which the worlds top medical brains are working on every day.
.

Not fine or balanced at all and the medical brains all flunked economics.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 12 Jun 2020, 09:35

An interesting case study of a 69 year old female who recovered showing 6 negatives, who was then heavily reexposed 1 month later to a C19 patient and then developed positive test and antibodies that weren't there previously. She was mild at 1st infection and no symptoms at 2nd

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs ... /jmv.26160

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 12 Jun 2020, 10:20

vtsnowedin wrote:
Catweazle wrote: It's a fine balance, which the worlds top medical brains are working on every day.
.
Not fine or balanced at all and the medical brains all flunked economics.

But the economists have all the power. They're the people actually deciding how much your life is worth.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 12 Jun 2020, 11:10

The best summary from the Torygraph comments:

This was all so, so predictable. My heart sank into my boots when the compulsory lockdown was announced. I knew it was a catastrophic mistake.
Boris is supposed to have said 'Christ' when told 3 and half million jobs will be lost the other day. If true, then it is utterly contemptible that he didn't expect that - and worse.
That other countries have fallen into the same madness is no excuse.
We have fallen into the 'sunk cost' trap that kept the First World war going year after year- just as I knew we would.
It was supposed to be about buying it time to get the Nightingales up and running - not 'defeating' the virus.
Yet, none of the media jackals have ever had the courage to challenge the extent of the lockdown nor the opposition choosing instead to obsess about Cummings and nit-pick.
Get rid of Vallance and Whitty from these damn press conferences. The brain washing must end. Replace them with business leaders and cancer experts to 'educate' the frightened brainwashed masses on what we need to do to try to claw back some of the harm.
Open the leisure industries now. Drop social distancing now- no one will be forced to go to the pub if they dont want to but stop the destruction of the economy now.
It's over for Boris - he's finished, but at least he can try to repair some of the harm before he is torn apart.

I don't agree that Boris is finished. I wouldn't trust anyone in Westminster or Whitehall that I have heard of.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 12 Jun 2020, 11:26

Catweazle wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Catweazle wrote: It's a fine balance, which the worlds top medical brains are working on every day.
.
Not fine or balanced at all and the medical brains all flunked economics.
But the economists have all the power. They're the people actually deciding how much your life is worth.

If they had all the power you would be fully open by now. I expect they will win out in the end and the quicker the better for you and the economy you depend on.

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 12 Jun 2020, 11:31

https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/09/rep ... condition/

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 12 Jun 2020, 12:25

https://worldabcnews.com/coronavirus-ne ... orld-news/

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 12 Jun 2020, 12:36

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/06/c ... .html#more

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 12 Jun 2020, 12:41

fuzzy wrote:https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/09/rep ... condition/

With nearly 19000 pre-existing conditions listed, you might be hard pressed to find someone without any.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 12 Jun 2020, 12:46

fuzzy wrote:https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/06/c ... .html#more

Makes sense. Perhaps we should make masks mandatory as we unlock.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 12 Jun 2020, 12:51

Catweazle wrote:
fuzzy wrote:https://off-guardian.org/2020/06/09/rep ... condition/
With nearly 19000 pre-existing conditions listed, you might be hard pressed to find someone without any.

Certainly. Take the over 60 population then subtract all the obese, then the thin but having heart disease from smoking, then those with high blood pressure, then subtract those thin but diabetic and you are already down to a small group and some of those have dementia.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 12 Jun 2020, 12:55

The real impact from Covid will only be known in a couple of years when excess deaths figures are available. An increase of early deaths now may well show up as a decreased death rate next year as you can only die once. I read somewhere that nursing home populations have been reduced by ten percent in three months. The escalator to heaven went into overdrive.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 12 Jun 2020, 15:34

vtsnowedin wrote:
Catweazle wrote: It's a fine balance, which the worlds top medical brains are working on every day.
.
Not fine or balanced at all and the medical brains all flunked economics.

And what price economics when it claims that we can and should have perpetual growth in a finite environment? What price economics when it claims we all behave and buy logically? What price economics when it still claims that output is the product of capital and labour? What price economics when it puts a price on everything except the environment and public health and a value on nothing?

At my Grammar School only the thickies did economics because they weren't clever enough to do science or classics/arts.