New coronavirus in/from China

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 05 May 2020, 09:03

Even the fullest lockdown will fail as the number of "essential workers" is high enough to spread the virus around and past those locked in. When you come out of hiding it will be waiting for you at the doctor's office and the police station and the gas pump. Sooner or later you will be in contact with one of these "essential workers" or one of their family members.

boisdevie · Post by **boisdevie** » 05 May 2020, 09:19

vtsnowedin wrote:Even the fullest lockdown will fail as the number of "essential workers" is high enough to spread the virus around and past those locked in. When you come out of hiding it will be waiting for you at the doctor's office and the police station and the gas pump. Sooner or later you will be in contact with one of these "essential workers" or one of their family members.

And just about everyone will get it and MOST people will NOT die or need medical intervention which means we killed the economy for no reason.

And no, of course I don't want all old people to die.

Mean Mr Mustard II · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard II** » 05 May 2020, 10:37

Vortex2 wrote:Too many words ...

Some posts here are the size of War and Peace.

Pls could we use links where possible.

Thanks.

https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made ... 6dd7413748

If you made it here by reading rather than scrolling, mad props to you. Hey, even if you scrolled, thatâ€™s cool too, and I apologize for the verbosity. I just didnâ€™t anticipate that the rabbit hole would turn out to be a whole underground cave system.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 05 May 2020, 10:41

boisdevie wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Even the fullest lockdown will fail as the number of "essential workers" is high enough to spread the virus around and past those locked in. When you come out of hiding it will be waiting for you at the doctor's office and the police station and the gas pump. Sooner or later you will be in contact with one of these "essential workers" or one of their family members.
And just about everyone will get it and MOST people will NOT die or need medical intervention which means we killed the economy for no reason.

And no, of course I don't want all old people to die.

We're trying to avoid carnage in our Hospitals and Care Homes and prevent a much higher death rate, no ?
To that end, the partial lock-down we have seems to be partially working....?
You say that you don't want all old people to die, but most of your posts read like you're only concerned about your own situation - going back to work, seeing your GF etc.

The economy is not 'killed', but it is going though a period of significant adjustment. Key workers are still going to work, many other workers are working from home, many others are furloughed and will be working again soon. HMG has come up with a range of support packages for companies and the self-employed which should(?) help to bridge the gap. Unfortunately many people have also lost their jobs, and no doubt many more will. Hopefully these people will find their feet again soon - maybe by turning their hand to different careers/jobs...?

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 05 May 2020, 11:15

Mark wrote:
boisdevie wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:Even the fullest lockdown will fail as the number of "essential workers" is high enough to spread the virus around and past those locked in. When you come out of hiding it will be waiting for you at the doctor's office and the police station and the gas pump. Sooner or later you will be in contact with one of these "essential workers" or one of their family members.
And just about everyone will get it and MOST people will NOT die or need medical intervention which means we killed the economy for no reason.

And no, of course I don't want all old people to die.
We're trying to avoid carnage in our Hospitals and Care Homes and prevent a much higher death rate, no ?
To that end, the partial lock-down we have seems to be partially working....?
You say that you don't want all old people to die, but most of your posts read like you're only concerned about your own situation - going back to work, seeing your GF etc.

The economy is not 'killed', but it is going though a period of significant adjustment. Key workers are still going to work, many other workers are working from home, many others are furloughed and will be working again soon. HMG has come up with a range of support packages for companies and the self-employed which should(?) help to bridge the gap. Unfortunately many people have also lost their jobs, and no doubt many more will. Hopefully these people will find their feet again soon - maybe by turning their hand to different careers/jobs...?

What is actually happening is hospitals are lying nowhere near capacity leading to people with other illnesses dying of shit they should not be. Meanwhile, elderly people are dying in care homes due to nowhere near the level of biosecurity being applied to hospitals. So, the only people dying are the elderly and those with comorbidities.

You know... the ones who actually die of this illness.

Meanwhile, everyone else, who would not die of this illness are not being allowed to catch it and recover form it.

Doing a great job there....

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 05 May 2020, 11:35

Mark wrote:
The economy is not 'killed', but it is going though a period of significant adjustment.

It is early here this morning and though I have pondered that statement for several minutes I can't find words that would describe just how absurd that statement is. Apparently thirty percent unemployment and looming food shortages are just adjustments.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 05 May 2020, 12:04

vtsnowedin wrote:
Mark wrote:
The economy is not 'killed', but it is going though a period of significant adjustment.
It is early here this morning and though I have pondered that statement for several minutes I can't find words that would describe just how absurd that statement is. Apparently thirty percent unemployment and looming food shortages are just adjustments.

We've not seen 30% unemployment in the UK - maybe in the US ?
I think we need several months more data to see the full trends on this, but my feeling is that we're not anywhere near that level.

As for food, there seem to be some good outcomes from this crisis....
In the West, we need to start by consuming a lot less - the level of obesity, particularly in the US is horrendous.

We also seem to be wasting less, which is good:
https://inews.co.uk/news/consumer/coron ... ch-2542642
...and for the moment, we seem to have stopped air-freighting in asparagus from Kenya etc.

However, I take your point about some of the projections about food supply.
If this gets a lot worse and results in the whole system collapsing, the UK could be in a very difficult position....

boisdevie · Post by **boisdevie** » 05 May 2020, 12:12

Mark wrote: You say that you don't want all old people to die, but most of your posts read like you're only concerned about your own situation - going back to work, seeing your GF etc.

I'm a listening volunteer with the Samaritans and will be doing a shift tonight from 11pm till 2am. 3 years ago I donated a kidney to a stranger so please don't even try to suggest I'm some f***ing amoral wanker you judgemental git.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 05 May 2020, 12:32

US unemployment for March was 16.1 percent but does not include those stilll being paid under the PPP payroll protection program. The numbers are still coming in but if you close all non essential business and send their employees home all those that can't telework are unemployed that day no matter what you call it.
Every sit down restaurant both chain lines and family owned business are closed and will never reopen profitably so will soon be filing bankruptcy as will the owners of the real estate they occupied. Every hotel and vacation spot is closed and will never turn a profit again, All airports and all their staff have taken 70 percent reductions in flights and the need for services. Meat packing plants are closing along with other links in the food distribution system. Farmers are dumping milk and burying eggs and crops. Gas is less then $2.00 a gallon but no one has anywhere to drive to that is open. No domestic oil driller can make money at the current price of oil so are laying off staff.
Significant adjustments indeed!

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 05 May 2020, 12:50

https://metro.co.uk/video/american-woma ... e-2164644/

fuzzy · Post by **fuzzy** » 05 May 2020, 13:14

The UK will be the same, VT. Anyone in the huge hospitality and retail sectors is treading water on gov backstop.

Of the 1.5 million the gov claims are necessary to do nothing, [because the mekon brains say so] maybe 1/2 - 1 million will be below 68 [our brave new world retiring age]. They will be told they are unemployable by the gov, based on made up science, without an antibody test that might show they may have already had batflu, and it was jackshit. Maybe 500000 will receive no welfare if they are a couple with one still working. At least they won't have to visit job centres for a while.

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/28/number-h ... -12622798/

Mean Mr Mustard II · Post by **Mean Mr Mustard II** » 05 May 2020, 13:17

UndercoverElephant wrote:https://metro.co.uk/video/american-woma ... e-2164644/

Also good for the straw for sipping bleach.

vtsnowedin · Post by **vtsnowedin** » 05 May 2020, 13:34

fuzzy wrote:The UK will be the same, VT. Anyone in the huge hospitality and retail sectors is treading water on gov backstop.

Eventually the government will need tax revenue to pay for such backstops. In the future I don't see getting on a plane and flying to England to then stand in line to get on a bus to see Stonehenge or Big Ben. You may have some hospitality industry left but it will be a shadow of what it was.
Treading water they may be but their water wings are leaking air and there is a rip tide.

Mark · Post by **Mark** » 05 May 2020, 13:58

boisdevie wrote:
Mark wrote: You say that you don't want all old people to die, but most of your posts read like you're only concerned about your own situation - going back to work, seeing your GF etc.
I'm a listening volunteer with the Samaritans and will be doing a shift tonight from 11pm till 2am. 3 years ago I donated a kidney to a stranger so please don't even try to suggest I'm some f***ing amoral wanker you judgemental git.

I can only go by what you post, which is all on a theme, namely to totally open the country up, preferably weeks ago
This is something I don't agree with, for the reasons outlined on here many times.

However, now things are starting to look a little more under control, I think there's now an argument for starting a partial/pulsed lifting, but with more controls on Hospitals, Care Homes, Public Transport, Airports etc..
All employers should first have to complete a comprehensive Risk Assessment...
The problem though, is that most RAs will specify the use of PPE, which will massively increase demand and potentially divert it away from Hospitals and Care Homes...

Regarding your other point, I wasn't questioning your morals, just disagreeing with your opinions and what seems to be motivating them (from your own postings).
As you are free to disagree with mine.

Post by **adam2** » 05 May 2020, 14:07

vtsnowedin wrote:
fuzzy wrote:The UK will be the same, VT. Anyone in the huge hospitality and retail sectors is treading water on gov backstop.

Eventually the government will need tax revenue to pay for such backstops. In the future I don't see getting on a plane and flying to England to then stand in line to get on a bus to see Stonehenge or Big Ben. You may have some hospitality industry left but it will be a shadow of what it was.
Treading water they may be but their water wings are leaking air and there is a rip tide.

I agree, and speaking of the two attractions specifically mentioned, rather than more generally, there are some excellent video tours available on line, together with TV documentary programmes for those interested in more detail. Travelling thousands of miles to view well known attractions will I suspect become a lot less popular.