New coronavirus in/from China

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vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Little John wrote:Furthermore, it will be interesting to see how many of the Covid-19 deaths thus far have been "borrowed" from the death rates in other diseases that would have occurred at some point in the next year or so. Time will tell on that one by checking on those other deaths rates in the months to come and comparing with previous years. What might be reasonably deemed a "cut-off" point where the death might be attributed to some other disease or to Covid-19 is, of course, a matter for debate. Personally, I would consider any death that was 2 years or less in terms of being premature, as belonging to the other disease and any premature death that was more than 2 years as being attributable to Covid-19. It is a morally very tough judgement to have to make. That's for sure. But, that judgement has to be balanced against all other required moral judgements in all of this.
Yes but I would settle for just one year, especially if you were out and about and not sitting in a "home" in adult sized diapers.
From what data I have found by my amateur efforts I see about fifty percent of Covid deaths have pushed sick people to their end a year or less from what they were already facing.
That is bad for them and their loved ones but makes little difference to the fortunes of their country.
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Vortex2
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Post by Vortex2 »

vtsnowedin wrote:
Little John wrote:Furthermore, it will be interesting to see how many of the Covid-19 deaths thus far have been "borrowed" from the death rates in other diseases that would have occurred at some point in the next year or so. Time will tell on that one by checking on those other deaths rates in the months to come and comparing with previous years. What might be reasonably deemed a "cut-off" point where the death might be attributed to some other disease or to Covid-19 is, of course, a matter for debate. Personally, I would consider any death that was 2 years or less in terms of being premature, as belonging to the other disease and any premature death that was more than 2 years as being attributable to Covid-19. It is a morally very tough judgement to have to make. That's for sure. But, that judgement has to be balanced against all other required moral judgements in all of this.
Yes but I would settle for just one year, especially if you were out and about and not sitting in a "home" in adult sized diapers.
From what data I have found by my amateur efforts I see about fifty percent of Covid deaths have pushed sick people to their end a year or less from what they were already facing.
That is bad for them and their loved ones but makes little difference to the fortunes of their country.
OK, let's say that we can discard anyone over say 65, and open the floodgates.

Do we really think that there would be no other damage from the virus?
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

Vortex2 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote:
Little John wrote:Furthermore, it will be interesting to see how many of the Covid-19 deaths thus far have been "borrowed" from the death rates in other diseases that would have occurred at some point in the next year or so. Time will tell on that one by checking on those other deaths rates in the months to come and comparing with previous years. What might be reasonably deemed a "cut-off" point where the death might be attributed to some other disease or to Covid-19 is, of course, a matter for debate. Personally, I would consider any death that was 2 years or less in terms of being premature, as belonging to the other disease and any premature death that was more than 2 years as being attributable to Covid-19. It is a morally very tough judgement to have to make. That's for sure. But, that judgement has to be balanced against all other required moral judgements in all of this.
Yes but I would settle for just one year, especially if you were out and about and not sitting in a "home" in adult sized diapers.
From what data I have found by my amateur efforts I see about fifty percent of Covid deaths have pushed sick people to their end a year or less from what they were already facing.
That is bad for them and their loved ones but makes little difference to the fortunes of their country.
OK, let's say that we can discard anyone over say 65, and open the floodgates.

Do we really think that there would be no other damage from the virus?
I never said or proposed that. The sick and old need to stay as far away from Covid-19 as possible and the government need to do what it takes to allow them to stay home and avoid contracting the disease. And yes opening the floodgates for the younger people will bring about some losses and damage. But that loss will be far less then the damage from keeping half the population out of work.
Again there is no good or perfect solution just solutions that cost less then others.
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Catweazle
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Post by Catweazle »

Little John wrote:
Catweazle wrote:We're saved, all we need is intravenous Dettol and some easy-to-swallow LED lights.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... s-n1191216
No he did not suggest that. Or, rather what he suggested was taken completely out of context.
He now claims that he addressed the questions to journalists and was being sarcastic, which is at odds with eye witnesses who say he made the suggestions directly to his own health expert, who looked stunned.

Face it, the man's an idiot, he already described the virus as "smart" and vicious, he seems to think it "learns" and "hides".

If this is the calibre of intellect leading the fight we're screwed.
Little John

Post by Little John »

Catweazle wrote:
Little John wrote:
Catweazle wrote:We're saved, all we need is intravenous Dettol and some easy-to-swallow LED lights.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... s-n1191216
No he did not suggest that. Or, rather what he suggested was taken completely out of context.
He now claims that he addressed the questions to journalists and was being sarcastic, which is at odds with eye witnesses who say he made the suggestions directly to his own health expert, who looked stunned.

Face it, the man's an idiot, he already described the virus as "smart" and vicious, he seems to think it "learns" and "hides".

If this is the calibre of intellect leading the fight we're screwed.
I already know the man's an idiot.

However, what I also know is that we have unabashed idiocy on one side of the political divide and it's mirror on the other side hiding behind a facade of moral rectitude having the vapors. I am not referring to you personally in that comment by the way. But, frankly, it's just boring.
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Vortex2
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Post by Vortex2 »

Little John wrote:
Vortex2 wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: Yes but I would settle for just one year, especially if you were out and about and not sitting in a "home" in adult sized diapers.
From what data I have found by my amateur efforts I see about fifty percent of Covid deaths have pushed sick people to their end a year or less from what they were already facing.
That is bad for them and their loved ones but makes little difference to the fortunes of their country.
OK, let's say that we can discard anyone over say 65, and open the floodgates.

Do we really think that there would be no other damage from the virus?
You are doing it again aren't you. You just can't help yourself can you. Are you going to pack it in with this bullshit?
I have no idea what your problem is - but it's not very endearing.
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Mark
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Post by Mark »

'It's crackers!' What Manchester Airport passengers think of the lack of coronavirus screening
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk ... t-18147107

Coronavirus screening happens at airports in Uganda and Singapore where there have been barely any fatalities - so why isn't it happening here as UK deaths soar?

Terminal 1 was almost deserted on Friday. Today I'm here in a professional capacity, doing what journalists like to call a 'meet and greet': I'm asking people if they have been screened for coronavirus at some point on their journey here. As the number of Covid-19 deaths in the UK climbs towards 20,000 (and that's just in hospitals), questions remain about why there has been no screening for the virus for people entering the country, either at the start of the outbreak or now. The government say such testing is just not reliable - but it is used in parts of Africa and the Middle East where there have been far fewer deaths. This is an uncomfortable fact for government decision-makers who are coming under increasing pressure from some airports to introduce, belatedly, mass screening, antibody tests and even so-called 'health passports'. The arrivals board at Terminal 1 at Manchester Airport. An almost-empty KLM flight from Amsterdam has just landed, one of only nine arrivals at T1. The two other terminals have been closed because of the lockdown. This is an airport with two runways more used to dealing with 29m passengers per year. So instead of an average 80,000 passengers coming through the airport each day, the airport is seeing just a few hundred. I am told no more than two people were sitting on any single row of seats on the flight which has just landed from Schiphol. Some people wore masks on board. Others didn't.

Maybe a few dozen people, they walk through those familiar sliding doors. The first person I approach is off-shore oil industry engineer Royce Leonard, 54, from Hull, who is returning from a job in Holland. He confirms he wasn't screened at Schiphol or, of course, once he landed in Manchester. In fact, he travels the globe as part of his job and is rarely screened anywhere, he tells me. "It's crackers," he said, adding: "Three weeks ago I flew from Darwin in Australia to Qatar and into Heathrow and into Manchester and there was not one bit of screening anywhere. It's unbelievable. It's been like this from the beginning." He singles out Singapore (which has registered just 12 deaths) for praise: there, passengers must pass thermal imaging cameras. "If you flash up, they pull you to one side. If not, they leave you to travel. In the UK, if you come off an international flight you walk straight through," said Royce. Does he buy the UK government argument that screening doesn't work because it's unreliable? People who don't have a temperature can still have the virus. "Not really, no. If it shows a temperature then you have a temperature and it's better than nothing," he said.

The next passenger I speak is a woman who has flown from Uganda, via Schiphol. She doesn't want to be named. She is also wearing a mask. Uganda has reported fewer than 100 coronavirus cases and no deaths. "They check your temperature and if you have a temperature they won't allow you to travel," she said, pointing out that there was also a mandatory 14-day quarantine for anyone entering the country. She admits she is very concerned about the UK death toll. "It's scary. It's really not going down," she said. Asked whether there should be screening at UK airports, she said: "Yeah, it should be more strict. Absolutely. Stricter. At least some checks. You can't check everything but I think, yes, temperature. "I'm no expert but the model of the Ugandan government seems to be working. Nationals from other countries who have refused quarantine have been sent back because it's a real risk. If we want to keep people safe, we have to consider that."

Next I talk to a cargo pilot, wearing his uniform and waiting for his ride outside the T1 building. He doesn't want to be named. Whilst on his travels, he said he had only seen screening in Africa, certainly not in the UK or the rest of Europe. Screening wasn't the answer but 'could be a help' if only to alert people who weren't aware, he admitted. He wasn't wearing a mask and seemed pretty relaxed about the crisis. Asked what he thought about the lack of screening at European airports, he said: "If there's no screening then nobody knows." I thank him for his time and walk away, plonking myself down on a seat to check my notes. The pilot walks by and said: "You can add to your list the Middle East." Aside from temperature checks, at Middle East airports they also carry out a nasal test. "It's very strict there," he said. I noted he appeared phlegmatic about the lack of screening before. "This for all our safety. I think it's stupid people don't realise that," he said, before continuing on his way.

Officials at Manchester Airport are reluctant to be drawn on the controversy, unlike the boss of Heathrow Airport who has reportedly written to Health Secretary Matt Hancock to demand routine temperature checks, antibody tests and a requirement for all passengers to carry a 'health passport' to show they are healthy. Heathrow chief executive John Holland-Kaye is said to want Public Health England to release data to prove their claim that temperature screening doesn't work. The chief executive of Manchester Airport Group (which includes Manchester and other airports) Charlie Cornish is keeping his head down while his counterpart at Heathrow appears to be ruffling government feathers. Instead, Mr Cornish and his staff defer to the government, saying they are only following the advice that has been given. An airport spokesman would only say: “Our number one priority is the safety and security of all our customers and colleagues. We are currently operating the airport in line with guidance from Public Health England. We are constantly monitoring the situation and, should that guidance change, we will respond accordingly.� We asked Public Health England for a statement and they said: "Manchester Airport as all other UK airports are following advice and protocols set by the UK Government. All UK airports, Manchester included, have leaflets and information for travellers on signs and symptoms and what do to if they feel unwell. "Most people who develop symptoms will get them after leaving the airport and so our priority is providing UK residents and travellers with the latest information to make sure they know what to do if they experience symptoms, and the NHS and PHE have an established plan to respond to someone who becomes unwell. "Clinical entry screening (for example through temperature checks) would be of very limited effectiveness and detect only a small minority of cases as symptoms. This is because symptoms do not usually appear until 5-7 days, and sometimes up to 14 days." So, while the few passengers still flying in and out of Manchester Airport might not like it, coronavirus screening isn't going to be happening any time soon if the government sticks to its position.
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Post by fuzzy »

You only have to look at flightradar24 and see where the passenger planes that are still flying are going to - Eire, US, ME, Asia, Europe. Why do anything the city doesn't want when everyone one else can sit in their houses?
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Vortex2
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Post by Vortex2 »

Yesterday had the lowest death rate recorded on a Friday for the third week in a row.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11469787/ ... ses-19000/

So is DROAF is new ISO unit?

How about DRDLOAW - Death Rate During Lunchtime On A Wednesday?
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

boisdevie wrote:
clv101 wrote: Current deaths are over 40k.
Which is about the number of people in the UK who die because of obesity every year - are we going to shut down the economy to deal with this too?
This is just the first wave and last time I checked obesity wasn't contagious.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Vortex2 wrote:Yesterday had the lowest death rate recorded on a Friday for the third week in a row.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11469787/ ... ses-19000/

So is DROAF is new ISO unit?

How about DRDLOAW - Death Rate During Lunchtime On A Wednesday?
If DROAF is low you can enjoy your weekend a bit more!!

If DROAF was going up they wouldn't publish it so that your weekend wasn't spoilt. It is from the Sun after all!
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

I deleted a post which only contained personal abuse which doesn't add anything to the debate.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Little John wrote:
Catweazle wrote:We're saved, all we need is intravenous Dettol and some easy-to-swallow LED lights.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald ... s-n1191216
No he did not suggest that. Or, rather what he suggested was taken completely out of context. Which admittedly, is not hard given his dumb ass use of vocabulary. But, it is important to not let hyperbole run riot.

To be specific, Trump asked abut light and disinfectant being used in the body. There are, in fact, two existing therapies. UV and Ozone. The one that has got all of the usual suspects in a flap and clutching their pearls is the disinfectant one. However, this has, in fact, been used with cancer patients. O3 gas is infused into the body as a disinfectant to improve the intake of oxygen whilst simultaneously ramping up the immune system. Thus, more efficiently killing bacteria and viruses.

Trump was merely asking the expert off to one side if the above therapy was being considered for use with Covid-19.
They must have cut the interview when I saw it because I saw no reference to those therapies. If there was a reference to those therapies it was obviously beyond Trump's mental capabilities because he seemed to have no idea what he was talking about which is just as damning for a person in his position. You expect someone in his position to be able to take a briefing and have some comprehension of the principles enunciated in the briefing and then have the eloquence to regurgitate parts of the briefing to the press. The UV light has obviously frazzled his brain as much as his skin!!

I hope the above personal abuse adds to the debate, if not on coronavirus at least to the debate on Trump!
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
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Catweazle
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Post by Catweazle »

Little John wrote: But, frankly, it's just boring.
It might look as if people are ripping on Trump simply because he's an incompetent fool, you could easily convince yourself that it's not important because he has fine medical minds advising him and making the big decisions, but it's not true. Sure, he has excellent advisors available but we know he doesn't listen or understand them, and we know from history what happens to experts who don't tell Trump what he wants to hear.

I think Trump will likely throw many people under the bus to save his precious "Dow Jones" election campaign and if that doesn't look likely to work he'll start making war noises. He might do both.

Frankly, it's just worrying.
Little John

Post by Little John »

Catweazle wrote:
Little John wrote: But, frankly, it's just boring.
It might look as if people are ripping on Trump simply because he's an incompetent fool, you could easily convince yourself that it's not important because he has fine medical minds advising him and making the big decisions, but it's not true. Sure, he has excellent advisors available but we know he doesn't listen or understand them, and we know from history what happens to experts who don't tell Trump what he wants to hear.

I think Trump will likely throw many people under the bus to save his precious "Dow Jones" election campaign and if that doesn't look likely to work he'll start making war noises. He might do both.

Frankly, it's just worrying.
The American military industrial complex is dead set on this all ending in war Trump or no Trump, Obama or no Obama etc etc etc.

The lyrics change, the tune never does. The man in front of the curtain is a sideshow. The real action is going on behind the curtain and that never changes.
Last edited by Little John on 25 Apr 2020, 15:41, edited 1 time in total.
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