New coronavirus in/from China

[stumuz1]

I meant something from a professional medical body.

I'm not a professional medical body. Sorry.

[kenneal - lagger]

https://moneyweek.com/economy/global-ec ... -inflation

Here’s why inflation will hang around

Of course, supply will catch up. The question then becomes – how do we end up with an ongoing inflation problem? And that boils down to the continuing reactions by governments and central banks (which are now once again, basically one and the same thing).

When we come out of this, governments will have spent a lot of money that they didn’t have. So there will be a lot of debt. Where’s the money to repay all that going to come from?

The taxpayer? Forget it. Seriously – forget it. There isn’t enough money in our pockets.

Tax the rich? It won’t make a dent. Tax everyone else? I don’t see that washing politically after we’ve all been well behaved and feeling that glow of solidarity, and are also all itching to go out and spend cash.

So where does it come from? It comes from the central bank; we print it. Why is that inflationary? Because, put very simply, you’re adding new money into the economy permanently and you’re not taking anything out.

The banks will, once again, have made a huge unearned profit from a crisis so by taxing that profit and repaying the central bank debt the government can take the money back out of the system and prevent inflation.

The only answer to the problem is to stop the current system of money coming into existence solely through new debt. The government should pay for infrastructure improvements with printed money and then tax it back from the increased GDP that the improvements bring.

Will that happen? No because of the power the bankers and the city hold over our government means that they will retain all their ill gotten gains.

[stumuz1]

Will that happen? No because of the power the bankers and the city hold over our government means that they will retain all their ill gotten gains.

Could not agree more.

[UndercoverElephant]

I don't remember the SARS outbreak in detail, but I'm sure we'd have been watching it from afar as it developed/progressed.
Maybe we'd have been better prepared and taken different actions in 2003 ?
Or maybe we just 'gambled' and got lucky ?
We defo should have learnt from it though.

My issues with HMG are:
1. They knew this was coming, but didn't prepare
Remember the 7Ps - Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
2. When it arrived, we saw how it was developing elsewhere, and failed to react quickly enough

It was an intentional decision, not a cock-up. Johnson and Cummings could see a potential outcome where the country was locked down to stop the spread, with no hope of a vaccine in sight any time soon, and no exit strategy, and the economy being strangled. They decided this outcome was too economically catastrophic, so went for "herd immunity" instead. They didn't care how overwhelmed the NHS was. They couldn't give a shit about the consequences for the people who work for the NHS. They just didn't want to end up in precisely the situation we are now in.

There was another way, and that was to prepare for testing on a massive scale and go for aggressive contact-tracing and quarantining of potential cases. But they saw that as too much effort and too expensive also.

It has been an abject failure of leadership. Dishonest, cowardly and poorly thought through.

So,
Would you have locked down the country in 2003 when SARS broke out?

No. SARS was considerably more containable than Covid-19. It was also much less of a threat to NHS staff.

[vtsnowedin]

Prove to me that being BAME makes you more susceptible to the virus. Is the virus racist?

Well, according to radio 4 this morning. Yes.

What in the world is BAME work?

[fuzzy]

Same question for you Mark,
Would you have locked down the country in 2003 when SARS broke out? It had the same R0 according to wiki.

I don't remember the SARS outbreak in detail, but I'm sure we'd have been watching it from afar as it developed/progressed.
Maybe we'd have been better prepared and taken different actions in 2003 ?
Or maybe we just 'gambled' and got lucky ?
We defo should have learnt from it though.

My issues with HMG are:
1. They knew this was coming, but didn't prepare
Remember the 7Ps - Proper Planning and Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance.
2. When it arrived, we saw how it was developing elsewhere, and failed to react quickly enough

It was an intentional decision, not a cock-up. Johnson and Cummings could see a potential outcome where the country was locked down to stop the spread, with no hope of a vaccine in sight any time soon, and no exit strategy, and the economy being strangled. They decided this outcome was too economically catastrophic, so went for "herd immunity" instead. They didn't care how overwhelmed the NHS was. They couldn't give a shit about the consequences for the people who work for the NHS. They just didn't want to end up in precisely the situation we are now in.

There was another way, and that was to prepare for testing on a massive scale and go for aggressive contact-tracing and quarantining of potential cases. But they saw that as too much effort and too expensive also.

It has been an abject failure of leadership. Dishonest, cowardly and poorly thought through.

Why isn't it up to the vast resources of the NHS to store PPE for emergencies?
I agree the gov made a particular decision, and then changed course with boffin instruction. They said so at an early press conference. Was it wrong with the facts at the time, or even now? They have made mistakes, eg promising testing, but the incompetence is PHE, NHS, D of H [whatever they are called now] ie civil service and ongoing gov incompetence of any party for decades. Even if Boris had divine wisdom, it would take more than the few months since he was re-elected to change career whitehall.

[vtsnowedin]

Working population UK =26.5M

With 24 million family members to support?

So the 26.5 will not be affected by Covid-19? Only their families?

Young workers have young families. Their elderly being supported by government retirement systems. So workers and their families they support face equal risk with the youngest children facing the least risk.

[stumuz1]

So the 26.5 will not be affected by Covid-19? Only their families?

Young workers have young families. Their elderly being supported by government retirement systems. So workers and their families they support face equal risk with the youngest children facing the least risk.

BAME= Black, Asian and minority ethnic

Young families have parents and some of them grandparents. You can't just hive off your Nana to the state.

[kenneal - lagger]

..........

Gordon Brown was the last competent leader we had.

Gordon Brown was the chancellor who left the country broke and stole my pension in the process. He wasn't any better as a PM either!

It's all very well railing against the government, but would a Labour or LibDem government done any better? I doubt it.

It is taking weeks to ramp up our testing capability to 100,000 tests per day so would we have been able to carry out the required level of testing from day one of the outbreak? Probably not. Companies are only just coming forward to offer their labs for processing test results because they have nothing else to do. If they had been asked when they were busy with routine work would have they dropped that work to take on the testing? Not sure on that one.

It's all very well being wise after the event with the benefit of hindsight but castigating a government for not anticipating the unknown is not very productive. By all means castigate them if they don't produce somewhere near the 100,000 tests per day by the end of the month but not for not using a crystal ball even if they had one.

[vtsnowedin]

So the 26.5 will not be affected by Covid-19? Only their families?

Young workers have young families. Their elderly being supported by government retirement systems. So workers and their families they support face equal risk with the youngest children facing the least risk.

BAME= Black, Asian and minority ethnic

Young families have parents and some of them grandparents. You can't just hive off your Nana to the state.

Who among you has a parent living in your home at your expense?

[stumuz1]

Why isn't it up to the vast resources of the NHS to store PPE for emergencies?

Use by dates. Most PPE is dated. It's in the PPE regs. So if you kept huge stocks, it would normally be thrown away.

[stumuz1]

Who among you has a parent living in your home at your expense?

Me. My parents live in a cottage next door.

[PS_RalphW]

The old, particularly those with one or more comorbidities are most vulnerable so your assumption that the NHS would be overwhelmed is complete bollocks.

Are so only the 'most vulnerable' get looked after. I get yer.

Let's collect the old and sick in special buildings, safe away from family and other visitors, with trained nursing attendants with full ppe, we could call them 'nursing homes'. What could go wrong with that?

[kenneal - lagger]

Another possible alternative to isolation gowns that are in short supply, would be traditional white cotton or poly/cotton lab coats.
These are in plentiful supply from numerous suppliers.

They give a good level of protection if changed frequently and HOT washed.
Easily laundered in standard machinery provided that the hottest wash cycle is used.
A chemical disinfectant can be used, but washing on the hottest cycle may be judged sufficient if followed by hot tumble drying.

These garments were worn by doctors until relatively recently.

The trouble is most of our scientists and medics have been bought up in a disposable orientated society so we are not set up, mentally or physically, to reuse "stuff." This might be one of the benefits if we learn that "stuff" must be reliable, reusable and reused.

Should they all be using Marigolds and sanitiser rather than single use disposable gloves. Would it take any longer to sanitise their gloves between patients rather than changing a pair of disposable gloves and throwing them away; twenty seconds to wash their hands.

[fuzzy]

Why isn't it up to the vast resources of the NHS to store PPE for emergencies?

Use by dates. Most PPE is dated. It's in the PPE regs. So if you kept huge stocks, it would normally be thrown away.

Well I can manage to eat the food in my fridge before it's poisonous. Every food shop in the UK pays min wage workers to rotate shelf stock. Are you saying the £250k Managers in the NHS can't use the old ones in the cupboard first, and order fresh masks?