2008 - Peak globalisation

[vtsnowedin]

There's massive profit in it for those controlling the government.

Your sentence should read, "Today when you defeat a country you have to rebuild it at the taxpayers' expense".

Ahh the old military industrial complex that Eisenhower warned us about. We do need to keep them in check but it will never be easy.

[emordnilap]

How near do posters here think we are to some massive shift in the system, bigger than the so-called 'crisis' of 2008? (And will it be economic, I suppose is the other question?)

The confluence of ever-decreasing energy availability and ever-increasing debt must explode at some point. What is the next limit that we are approaching?

Here's a link to an interesting piece that was mentioned in the comments section of the latest Monbiot article. It's either depressing or amusing; maybe it's both - it's up to you.

The evidence that civilisation is on the brink of collapse is piling up. Not just the hard left, but the most conservative organs of the establishment are reporting an ongoing global catastrophe. The newspapers are not, of course, hitting the panic button, but the facts are all there, if you look.

The natural world, upon which any society is based, is close to total collapse.

When the internet shuts down, and mobile phones stop working, and streetlights go out, and jobs cease to exist, and money becomes valueless, and you are constantly surrounded by people that, for once in your life, you have to have a direct relationship with, and your access to caffeine, alcohol, nicotine, opioidal wheaties and liquid cow is curtailed, and the ridiculous sense of hope you had in a nice, tidy, secure little future is shattered, it is not, first of all, scarcity that you will need to deal with, or the army, or the collapse of ‘democracy’, or the end of an oil-based economy. It is, first of all, your self.

I suppose you’d prefer to die early in a life of medieval misery would you?

Neither the medieval nor the pre-civilised world was worse than the modern world. The medieval world certainly was horrific, sometimes unbelievably so (particularly in Europe towards the end of period), but there was a great deal of convivial freedom in the dark and middle ages — including a great deal of gender complementarity, access to the wild, non-alienating work and massive amounts of free time, not to mention sane notions of death and madness — which is completely absent now and routinely ignored by focusing on the more horrific aspects of the [later] medieval world.
Pre-civilised (meaning pre-agrarian) life, as is recognised by all anthropologists without an insane right-wing axe to grind (i.e. not Steven Pinker, Jared Diamond, Napoleon Chagnon or Lawrence Keeley) was comfortable, fun, free of war and of work.

[vtsnowedin]

I suppose you’d prefer to die early in a life of medieval misery would you?

Neither the medieval nor the pre-civilised world was worse than the modern world. The medieval world certainly was horrific, sometimes unbelievably so (particularly in Europe towards the end of period), but there was a great deal of convivial freedom in the dark and middle ages — including a great deal of gender complementarity, access to the wild, non-alienating work and massive amounts of free time, not to mention sane notions of death and madness — which is completely absent now and routinely ignored by focusing on the more horrific aspects of the [later] medieval world.
Pre-civilised (meaning pre-agrarian) life, as is recognised by all anthropologists without an insane right-wing axe to grind (i.e. not Steven Pinker, Jared Diamond, Napoleon Chagnon or Lawrence Keeley) was comfortable, fun, free of war and of work.

Massive amounts of free time?? I'd like to see their evidence to that.

[emordnilap]

Today, more than 400 American military bases encircle China with missiles, bombers, warships and, above all, nuclear weapons.

A study by the RAND Corporation – which, since Vietnam, has planned America’s wars – is entitled, War with China: Thinking Through the Unthinkable. Commissioned by the US Army, the authors evoke the cold war when RAND made notorious the catch cry of its chief strategist, Herman Kahn – “thinking the unthinkable”. Kahn’s book, On Thermonuclear War, elaborated a plan for a “winnable” nuclear war against the Soviet Union.

Today, his apocalyptic view is shared by those holding real power in the United States: the militarists and neo-conservatives in the executive, the Pentagon, the intelligence and “national security” establishment and Congress.

The current Secretary of Defense, Ashley Carter, a verbose provocateur, says US policy is to confront those “who see America’s dominance and want to take that away from us”.

Source

[kenneal - lagger]

Massive amounts of free time?? I'd like to see their evidence to that.

The large amounts of intricate goldwork are one strand of evidence for this. In order for a society to support such high levels of art there must be a large degree of surplus energy in the system. This implies free time.

The intricate artwork produced by some North American indigenous people is similar evidence.

[clv101]

Massive amounts of free time?? I'd like to see their evidence to that.

This is well accepted now.

Plowing and harvesting were backbreaking toil, but the peasant enjoyed anywhere from eight weeks to half the year off. The Church, mindful of how to keep a population from rebelling, enforced frequent mandatory holidays. Weddings, wakes and births might mean a week off quaffing ale to celebrate, and when wandering jugglers or sporting events came to town, the peasant expected time off for entertainment. There were labor-free Sundays, and when the plowing and harvesting seasons were over, the peasant got time to rest, too. In fact, economist Juliet Shor found that during periods of particularly high wages, such as 14th-century England, peasants might put in no more than 150 days a year.

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2 ... -than-you/

Modern day Americans work absolutely bonkers hours - this is a major problem and certainly not something for any county/economy to aspire to.

[vtsnowedin]

Massive amounts of free time?? I'd like to see their evidence to that.

The large amounts of intricate goldwork are one strand of evidence for this. In order for a society to support such high levels of art there must be a large degree of surplus energy in the system. This implies free time.

The intricate artwork produced by some North American indigenous people is similar evidence.

No it implies that a skilled craftsman could take the time to do his craft properly.
I grew up on a farm that was still using horse power combined with such new inventions as chain saws for cutting wood. There was never a day without "chores" that needed to be done like milking cows by hand and shoveling the manure from behind them to the pile that later had to be re shoveled onto a wagon and shoveled off the wagon onto the ground that needed it.
If there were any days off it was in the winter when there was no hay to cut dry and haul into the barn and there was still enough wood in the shed to keep the house warm but even then the daily chores took all the time between getting to the school bus and the time after you got home and did the evening milking chores and your home work. Free time My A$$.

[kenneal - lagger]

That was because you experienced the joys of modern, debt laden existence, VT. It is even worse now with, in the UK anyway, soaring house prices from an already high base and spiralling education costs with consequent debt for half the population. Modern living is debt, rent or mortgage slavery. Slavery might have been abolished but *ankers have bought it back in a more subtle way. Even if you're mortgage free you still have property taxes to pay and energy bills because, in the main in the UK, land has been privatised and comiditised so that it isn't available for most people to scavenge their fuel. Thank god for commons and commoners rights and people who won't buy softwood for their open fires!

In the good old days most people were only working to feed a maximum of 1.5 people as most of the population were agricultural workers. Now each agricultural worker is having to grow enough to feed 10, 50 or a hundred people in order to make a living. No wonder there are chores to do on a modern farm.

In "the good old days" in England there were over 50 Saint's days a year which were holidays. No wonder they called it "Merry England".

[kenneal - lagger]

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2 ... -than-you/

Modern day Americans work absolutely bonkers hours - this is a major problem and certainly not something for any county/economy to aspire to.

The Great American Dream!! The Great American Con" more like!

You've been had VT. Come to Europe and double your holidays.

[vtsnowedin]

I'm fully retired now at age 61 so every day is a holiday for me.
To a New England farmer the greatest inventions ever were the diesel tractor with hydraulic loader on it, the vacuum operated milking machine, and the electric powered chain paddle gutter cleaner.
In the time a man could feed, milk and muck out four cows by hand he can today accomplish the same tasks for fifty.

[Little John]

I'm fully retired now at age 61 so every day is a holiday for me.
To a New England farmer the greatest inventions ever were the diesel tractor with hydraulic loader on it, the vacuum operated milking machine, and the electric powered chain paddle gutter cleaner.
In the time a man could feed, milk and muck out four cows by hand he can today accomplish the same tasks for fifty.

And so the amount of work he must do in a day is reduced in what way?

[vtsnowedin]

I'm fully retired now at age 61 so every day is a holiday for me.
To a New England farmer the greatest inventions ever were the diesel tractor with hydraulic loader on it, the vacuum operated milking machine, and the electric powered chain paddle gutter cleaner.
In the time a man could feed, milk and muck out four cows by hand he can today accomplish the same tasks for fifty.

And so the amount of work he must do in a day is reduced in what way?

The one farmer is just as busy as always but the twelve other farmhands that used to do that labor now live and work in the city.

[woodburner]

I'm fully retired now at age 61 so every day is a holiday for me.
To a New England farmer the greatest inventions ever were the diesel tractor with hydraulic loader on it, the vacuum operated milking machine, and the electric powered chain paddle gutter cleaner.
In the time a man could feed, milk and muck out four cows by hand he can today accomplish the same tasks for fifty.

And so the amount of work he must do in a day is reduced in what way?

Daft innit?

[vtsnowedin]

I'm fully retired now at age 61 so every day is a holiday for me.
To a New England farmer the greatest inventions ever were the diesel tractor with hydraulic loader on it, the vacuum operated milking machine, and the electric powered chain paddle gutter cleaner.
In the time a man could feed, milk and muck out four cows by hand he can today accomplish the same tasks for fifty.

And so the amount of work he must do in a day is reduced in what way?

Daft innit?

Perhaps you have never mucked out a stable with a shovel and a wheel barrow. Having done that for years growing up I can tell you no farmer would switch back to doing it that way without a fight.

[Little John]

I did. Stop trying to pull the "authenticity" card.