Britain too had ministers for propaganda, during both the world wars, except we called them ministers for information. (See what we did there? If only we'd thought of Ministry of Truth before Orwell did!)
The word didn't used to be as loaded as it is today, having a more neutral meaning of 'propagating' material to advance a cause. It was originally coined to describe a committee of cardinals in charge of propagating the Catholic faith overseas.
The British Library had a fascinating exhibition of propaganda through the ages on until recently. It really drove home to me that it is all around us, all the time. Some of us are even involved in producing it, though we may think, or hope, we're doing the opposite.
I shall add Homage to Catalonia and Carolyn Baker to the list!
Red pill or blue pill or ignorance is bliss?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Emordinap wrote:
Flat Earth News by Nick Davies is the best book I have ever read about the manufacture of our news.
Just reading George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia for the first time ( Embarassed ). Talk about honest reporting, which is what it is. Superb. Wish there were thousands of him.
Spain had its 'Minister for Propaganda'!
Flat Earth News by Nick Davies is the best book I have ever read about the manufacture of our news.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Frederick Douglass
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14814
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14814
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11 ... .html#morenexus wrote:Orlov reviews Carolyn Baker's new book
?Orlov wrote:The English tend to regard death as the ultimate embarrassment, and their cultural baggage is unfortunately still with us.
This is a new one on me. Interesting. Thoughts?
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
-
RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14814
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
This happened last Saturday; I met a friend I only see once or twice a year who said her brother died a month ago.RenewableCandy wrote:Quick test: you're at a party or somesuch, and it transpires the person you're talking with has had a recent bereavement. How (apart from feeling sad for them) do you feel, for the next few seconds? I think he's spot-on there.
So how did I feel apart from sad for them? Two things jumped up immediately. One, I felt sorry for the deceased, barely 64 years old; two, got a jolt because it reminded me of how this will happen to me several times, unless I go first.
Then we went for a coffee and talked about him and her relationship to him. We both found it hard to drag ourselves away...
RC, it's hard to know what I felt, partially because the last two years has been thick with death for me, barely a couple of weeks goes by without someone I know well dying (two in the last fortnight, actually). The joys of playing music and getting to know hundreds of musicians! Death-wise, I suppose I'm punch-drunk lately.
So I'm stuck as to how to answer your question, mainly because I try to get the persons 'left behind' (so to speak) talking about the deceased. You learn a lot about (all of) them that you never knew and come away with, well, more stuff.
So as for embarrassment, sorry, I don't get it. Whatever, it would be interesting to read others' responses to your post.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
-
UndercoverElephant
- Posts: 13523
- Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
- Location: UK
emordnilap wrote:http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11 ... .html#morenexus wrote:Orlov reviews Carolyn Baker's new book
That's a bit unfair on Jared Diamond. Sure, he avoided talking directly about the collapse of our own civilisation, but the entire book was indirectly about just that. It is quite clear that he himself believes we are at least in serious danger of collapse, even if he doesn't imply it is a dead certainty. I'm not sure how anybody could read that book and not conclude that our own civilisation is in serious trouble.The reason Diamond avoids it is obvious: collapse is an unacceptable topic of discussion if it relates to us. It is perfectly fine to talk about past collapses, and perhaps even muse about future collapses, provided they happen to someone else. That's because we are exceptional and will go on forever.
Apart from that it is bang-on. Yep, as soon as you take this seriously it becomes about you, not about civilisation collapsing. That is precisely why I ended up just having to lie to the psychiatrists responsible for deciding whether or not I was released from the hospital I spent several weeks in. Because they themselves did not understand that the reason I was feeling the way I was were entirely rational and based on a deeper understanding of what was happening in the world than their own, they could only conclude that the root cause of "my problems" lay inside me. I therefore had to tell them whatever they wanted to hear, or they'd never have let me out.
I was and remain sane; it is the civilisation we live in that is mad.
Not quite sure where he got that one from.?Orlov wrote:The English tend to regard death as the ultimate embarrassment, and their cultural baggage is unfortunately still with us.
This is a new one on me. Interesting. Thoughts?
Last edited by UndercoverElephant on 13 Nov 2013, 23:05, edited 1 time in total.
-
UndercoverElephant
- Posts: 13523
- Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
- Location: UK
Not sure what you're getting at. You haven't provided enough information. I'd respond in different ways depending on the nature of the bereavement.RenewableCandy wrote:Quick test: you're at a party or somesuch, and it transpires the person you're talking with has had a recent bereavement. How (apart from feeling sad for them) do you feel, for the next few seconds? I think he's spot-on there.
UE wrote
this:
http://boingboing.net/2009/04/22/openin ... s-box.html
is a really interesting book that updates many seminal psychology experiments/theories. Especially interesting are Rosenhan's psychiatric diagnosis and the rat park addiction experiment.
Agreed.it is the civilisation we live in that is mad.
this:
http://boingboing.net/2009/04/22/openin ... s-box.html
is a really interesting book that updates many seminal psychology experiments/theories. Especially interesting are Rosenhan's psychiatric diagnosis and the rat park addiction experiment.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Frederick Douglass
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14814
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
It's possible many on here would agree; I certainly would. And as far as Diamond goes, yes, his writings are largely concerned with 'civilisations' that did seemingly mad things. The clear conclusion is...UndercoverElephant wrote:I was and remain sane; it is the civilisation we live in that is mad.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14814
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
Candy, you're a jinx. You posted that just as my sister's FIL passed away.RenewableCandy wrote:Quick test: you're at a party or somesuch, and it transpires the person you're talking with has had a recent bereavement. How (apart from feeling sad for them) do you feel, for the next few seconds? I think he's spot-on there.
While he was a much-loved man, at least he got to 91 and died peacefully, while asleep, with some of his family around him. Still.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
-
RenewableCandy
- Posts: 12777
- Joined: 12 Sep 2007, 12:13
- Location: York
Sorry about that, I'll try and be more careful in future.
In that thought experiment, I was assuming that you've only just met the person you're talking with. So, sharing memories about the lost person is, at least at first, not an option.
And to be fair he was talking about Brits/Prods: from what I know, Irish culture's very different on this.
In that thought experiment, I was assuming that you've only just met the person you're talking with. So, sharing memories about the lost person is, at least at first, not an option.
And to be fair he was talking about Brits/Prods: from what I know, Irish culture's very different on this.
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14814
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
RenewableCandy wrote:Sorry about that, I'll try and be more careful in future.
OK, I'll try it.RenewableCandy wrote:In that thought experiment, I was assuming that you've only just met the person you're talking with. So, sharing memories about the lost person is, at least at first, not an option.
'tis indeed. But I'm not Irish.RenewableCandy wrote:And to be fair he was talking about Brits/Prods: from what I know, Irish culture's very different on this.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
Re: Red pill or blue pill or ignorance is bliss?
To all things there is a beginning. And an end. Coping with basic issues of mortality appears to drive more than a little angst into all. Some cope by pretending that they can avoid the inevitable, they horde gold, grow a garden, hide from things that go bump in the night, or at the very least use their belief to rationalize feeling superior to all of those who don't buy into their belief system.boisdevie wrote:Am I the only one who finds it hard to cope? I'm pretty sure we're well on our way to environmental armageddon and I"m surrounded by people who either don't realise or don't care. I switch from feeling angry, resentful, despairing, resigned.
How do you all cope?
To cope you just need to recognize that no matter what you do, how hard you try, or don't try, regardless of your situation at this moment, the quality of the rest of your life or what anyone else around you is doing, wants to do or ever hopes to do; you, him, her, them, are going to die just the same.
Enjoy your spark of consciousness for the near infinitesimal amount of time you have it. But don't ever forget that no matter the choice, action, hope or dream, you will never escape the outcome.