Lots of Peeps viewing but few posting.... come on post!

mr brightside · Post by **mr brightside** » 23 Oct 2011, 22:08

..oh and i often feel thick and out of my depth on here, like Fred Dibnah at a powerpoint presentation on economics. To contribute properly on here i'd need to read a lot of papers and know a lot of stuff, and if that were the case my cars would be falling to pieces.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 23 Oct 2011, 22:10

maudibe wrote:I'm with UE on this - the Powerswitch Forum has yet to meet its most important time..... when it is really mainstream this site could be of enormous value to ordinary folk. So perhaps the long standing members have a responsibility to be suportive of new members and lurkers, rather than getting into political bitching.

Just a thought.

That can only be done if the Powerswtich forum goes beyond the left-right thing. If the core activists insist on isolating and ignoring anybody with 'right wing' views they are basically going to repel the majority of the British population who are generally a conservative/centre right bunch.

After all, poll show the majority of the population support leaving the EU, bringing back the death penalty and are pretty intolerant to benefit 'scroungers' and travellers. Don't forget that the majority of the people are climate deniers. If you take the attitude that anybody with even one of those views is outside the pale of the PS movement than you will never get past the electoral AV core of the population - basically about a third of the population.

To put in anather way, PS and the broader TT community need to reach out to all those who voted against AV instead to staying within the comfort zone of the pro-AV social base.

postie · Post by **postie** » 23 Oct 2011, 23:50

I've been involved in a lot of forums for many years and I've seen this debate come up time and time again.

In fact I started my own forum, on a completely different subject from PO, because I thought a different forum owner wasn't trying their best to increase membership... or promote the site... The site I started quickly overtook the pre-existing site and is still going well, although I now have very little to do with it. At the last count we had 20 thousand plus members. Because.. simply.. you need a focus.. and you need to attract new members to keep any forum vibrant and alive.

We were ALL new to PO once.. and we all had questions. There are still people new to PO. We aren't getting them join here.. AND posting.

There are simple solutions to this. But.. (you saw that coming.. yeah?).. the site needs to change. As far as i can tell, this site is running on phpBB2. The web has moved on since phpBB2 was invented. At the very least it needs to be phpBB3. The layout wont really change.. but it'll make it more manageable for admins.

If less time is taken on admin work, more stuff can happen on making this site findable on search engines.

There is a wealth of knowledge on here, I'd suggest using it to better the site.

I'd also make the site more user friendly, why have so many extra forums that are barely used.. collapse them into an existing forum and make them sub-forums.. or even better stickies. Concentrate on the core. As a regular user.. you know what.. I rarely, if ever, scroll down past the page-break.. most new members don't want to either.. most regulars don't either. Lose them. Keep the interest. Why have 10 good threads spread out over 10 forums.. when 3 or at most 4 forums will cover everything you ever need to cover. at least it'd look like a busy site.. and busy sites, popularity, breeds popularity.

But then I've fecked off more than one site owner before... I aint a genius at this... i just know forums very well.

Update. Concise-ness, relevance. It encourages people to join. Simple as that.

lurker · Post by **lurker** » 24 Oct 2011, 01:44

Why still the bitching about RGR when he doesn't even post anymore. Also beria helps keep the forum from being completely dead even if you don't agree with his quasi facist tendencies.

Without a few conflicting voices the forum would be a very dull circle jerk. I hate the authortiarian idea some people seem to have of wanting to censor the perspectives that don't match there own. Even AIC hasn't really trolled that much tbh.

JohnB · Post by **JohnB** » 24 Oct 2011, 10:15

postie wrote:At the very least it needs to be phpBB3. The layout wont really change.. but it'll make it more manageable for admins.

Some of us were helping to test the upgrade to phpBB 3 in January 2009, but it never went live. Are any of the current admins able to do upgrades?

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 24 Oct 2011, 11:01

lurker wrote:Why still the bitching about RGR when he doesn't even post anymore.

I think mainly because him and a couple of others are the reason the site has been 'hollowed out'. Some seriously intelligent people left because of these trolls; in other words, they've won and it rankles, just as it should.

One thing I think needs to be addressed - this is not about 'peak oil' any more. It's about post peak oil, which is what the masses are having to/will have to deal with, though they haven't pinpointed the cause yet.

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 24 Oct 2011, 11:13

lurker wrote:
I hate the authortiarian idea some people seem to have of wanting to censor the perspectives that don't match there own. Even AIC hasn't really trolled that much tbh.

It certainly very educational to observe the very manipulative tactics
of some posters determined to have their superior world view hold sway despite, or possibly because of, it being patently absurd in many aspects.

What puts me off participating more is the way some really promising discussions have been knackered by being steered off subject by deliberate and cynical misdirection. I really do not understand what is wrong with the people who do this.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 24 Oct 2011, 12:10

Lord Beria3 wrote:
maudibe wrote:I'm with UE on this - the Powerswitch Forum has yet to meet its most important time..... when it is really mainstream this site could be of enormous value to ordinary folk. So perhaps the long standing members have a responsibility to be suportive of new members and lurkers, rather than getting into political bitching.

Just a thought.
That can only be done if the Powerswtich forum goes beyond the left-right thing. If the core activists insist on isolating and ignoring anybody with 'right wing' views they are basically going to repel the majority of the British population who are generally a conservative/centre right bunch.

As often as not it's you, Beria, who starts the left/right discussions with your sneering criticisms of the left.

You're not being isolated and you're certainly not being ignored. You're being disagreed with. If you can't handle that, then go away. Other people are entitled to express their political views, not just you.

And just because the majority of the population is conservative, that doesn't meant they're right. One might observe that most university staff are centre-left, which to me suggests a general correlation between intelligence and collectivist politics. Anyone who views society with a critical, dispassionate eye, disregarding their own selfish motives, is bound to see that if a society built around selfishness ends up tearing itself apart.

After all, poll show the majority of the population support leaving the EU, bringing back the death penalty and are pretty intolerant to benefit 'scroungers' and travellers. Don't forget that the majority of the people are climate deniers. If you take the attitude that anybody with even one of those views is outside the pale of the PS movement than you will never get past the electoral AV core of the population - basically about a third of the population.

I have no idea what you are saying. What is "the PS movement" when it's at home?

Are you arguing that people who join PS and express opinions some of us don't agree with shouldn't be challenged?

Or are you even arguing that those of us who are left-of-centre should change our opinions, or pretend to change them, to attract more punters?

What would be the point of that?

Though my expectations of the future are fairly grim, I have an image of the kind of society that I think stands the best chance of succeeding post-Peak, and it one in which people co-operate, share, and make personal sacrifices for the good of the community.

Appealing to people's selfishness, vindictiveness and aggression in order to attract them to a transition "movement" betrays the very principles of the movement, so what on earth is the point?

You're not the only conservative on PS, but it seems to me your vision is fundamentally different from, say, Kenneal's. Ken seems to accept that traditional conservativism has been wrong about some important things, and he clearly understands the importance of community and give-and-take. Dominic can be outrageous, but at least he doesn't get in a huff when people argue back.

I think what people object to is not so much your politics as the imperious, patronising tone with which you address people here. You've every right to talk like that, but don't expect our respect.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 24 Oct 2011, 12:12

Roger Adair wrote: What puts me off participating more is the way some really promising discussions have been knackered by being steered off subject by deliberate and cynical misdirection. I really do not understand what is wrong with the people who do this.

There's nothing wrong with them, they're being paid to post. At least, I'm pretty sure about that in at least one case.

Post by **mikepepler** » 24 Oct 2011, 13:41

Similar reasons for me to what some have already said.

Lack of time - today is the first time I've even logged in for a month or two.

Busy with preps - whether it's cutting wood, fitting renewable energy equipment or just working to clear debt as fast as possible. Not much time left for the internet in general.

Recycling old discussions - when I do check in, it seems like some discussions going on now have gone on years ago on the forum. No harm in that if there's new people involved, but I've not got anything more to add to what was said the first time round usually.

Arguments, etc. - as several others have said, the issues with trolls and personal battles just make me not inclined to log in, never mind post.

To an extent I think disengaging with forums like PowerSwitch is a stage many people reach. After hearing about PO I started preps within a few weeks, and there was lots to discuss/learn at first. But that was 7 years ago now, I've made my choices and am now implementing them. I still read news on PO and economic collapse, but more just to keep an eye on progress rather than to participate in debate.

I'd be interested to know what motivations people have for remaining engaged with the forum once they've got over the initial psychological hurdles related to peak oil and learned enough to make their decisions on preparations?

extractorfan · Post by **extractorfan** » 24 Oct 2011, 14:12

mikepepler wrote: I'd be interested to know what motivations people have for remaining engaged with the forum once they've got over the initial psychological hurdles related to peak oil and learned enough to make their decisions on preparations?

It's a kind of support mechanism for me. I spend long breaks from here but simply don't know anyone in the real world who has any inclination to think about matters such are discussed here.

So I keep coming back.

Post by **mikepepler** » 24 Oct 2011, 14:18

extractorfan wrote:
mikepepler wrote: I'd be interested to know what motivations people have for remaining engaged with the forum once they've got over the initial psychological hurdles related to peak oil and learned enough to make their decisions on preparations?
It's a kind of support mechanism for me. I spend long breaks from here but simply don't know anyone in the real world who has any inclination to think about matters such are discussed here.

So I keep coming back.

Yes, I can see that would be a good reason. Fortunately I've got a few friends in our town who are well aware of the energy/economic problem, and am also in touch with a number of the early PS members on facebook, so I do get to chat about it still.

UndercoverElephant · Post by **UndercoverElephant** » 24 Oct 2011, 14:25

mikepepler wrote: I'd be interested to know what motivations people have for remaining engaged with the forum once they've got over the initial psychological hurdles related to peak oil and learned enough to make their decisions on preparations?

I want to continue to improve my understanding of what is really going on in the world, and that very much includes how people's attitudes are changing as the world changes around them. I also have a personal commitment to fighting anti-scientific propaganda on the internet.

My main motivation is to attempt to improve the quality of the debate surrounding the whole ecology/civilisation/humanity situation. We (as a society) have spent far too long asking the wrong questions and failing to address the most important issues. I suspect that more people read this forum than participate in it, and they wouldn't be doing so if they weren't interested in the topics being discussed. I hope that free, open, intelligent, informed public debate on these matter, completely (or almost) uninfluenced by the powers that be, is extremely valuable. We may actually be having more influence than we realise. One thing I am certain of is this: there's no shortage of people out there who would, if they could, shut this forum down.

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 24 Oct 2011, 15:17

UndercoverElephant wrote: One thing I am certain of is this: there's no shortage of people out there who would, if they could, shut this forum down.

I don't think this forum, and possibly not even the Internet, will continue to exist after TSHTF. In the confusion TPTB could accuse PSers of domestic extremism and make the ISPs hand over our details.

(I suspect the Internet will be co-opted for purely military use, by fair means or foul. The idea that the ISPs wouldn't stand for this is naive IMO: they'll be made to stand for it. People have been made to dance to

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 24 Oct 2011, 15:32

Well, I remember that there are threads here somewhere discussing the possibility of terrorist attacks on UK energy infrastructure, and pointing out possible targets. (I also remember that shortly afterwards, increased security was announced at those same establishments).

We are clearly promoting terrorism and need to locked up