Opting out before the UK becomes 3rd world?

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 12 Dec 2009, 12:45

Unrest from Moslem radicals? Pah. A complete smokescreen. The very very least of our worries.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 12 Dec 2009, 18:26

LorneGifford wrote:clv101

Good points. Maybe it's just me that always tries to look at the good side of things.

LG: try this. (Apologies for putting it in two posts; and apologies to those who know about the graph already.)

I think another couple of lines could be added to the graph, one which would plot the trajectory of quantitive (sp?) easing, which always sounds to me very similar to a common and regular bodily function, and another showing bail-out money.

Catweazle · Post by **Catweazle** » 13 Dec 2009, 00:47

emordnilap wrote:
LorneGifford wrote:clv101

Good points. Maybe it's just me that always tries to look at the good side of things.
LG: try this. (Apologies for putting it in two posts; and apologies to those who know about the graph already.)

I think another couple of lines could be added to the graph, one which would plot the trajectory of quantitive (sp?) easing, which always sounds to me very similar to a common and regular bodily function, and another showing bail-out money.

I'm a bit embarassed to say that I don't fully understand that graph, how can all these lines be plotted together when they are in different units ? I could understand it to a point if the values were percentages of the starting values, but this doesn't appear to be the case. Is it not the case that by plotting them against "appropriate" scales almost any exponential-ish values can be made to fit that "curve of doom" ? Even if the actual values are very small.

Can anyone explain it to me ?

Thanks,

Embarassed Catweazle.

snow hope · Post by **snow hope** » 13 Dec 2009, 16:50

I think the point is that all those basic "things" are on an exponential growth curve, measured against time (last 2 centuries) and we all know what that means! Exponential curves are scarrrrryyyyyyyy.

The question is, when does the curve do a reverse??

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 14 Dec 2009, 12:08

Exactly. There's deliberately no y-axis because they're all different units.

I think it does prove some points though. I've printed a copy. I have a couple of friends I see at the local, one of whom is optimistic about the future because adversity has always been overcome before and the other who believes we're approaching a collapse point and is wondering what to do. They'll be very interested in this graph and I'll be interested in their reaction.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 15 Dec 2009, 17:53

snow hope wrote: The question is, when does the curve do a reverse??

Point that is missed frequently is that we don't know if it is an exponential curve. It might instead be an S curve.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 15 Dec 2009, 21:00

Unrest from Moslem radicals? Pah. A complete smokescreen. The very very least of our worries.

Have to disagree there, the long-term demographics are going to lead to large Muslim minorities/even majorities in major European capitals within 20 years which will have major political, social and cultural implications.

A minority of this minority subscribe to a idealogy of supremacy and hate and have a detailed masterplan to impose their Islamism on their own Muslim brothers and the wider Muslim majority.

Many will fail, but the few that succeed will lead to greater suspicion for the majority of Muslims and send them into the hands of the extremists.

In the context of a economic depression and the percieved failure of the secular consumerist model, thte Islamist alternative will become increasingly attractive.

This won't happen, but the threat of it will lead to massive surge to the populist right across Europe...

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 16 Dec 2009, 00:25

I have read enough to be convinced that the supposed Al Qaeda threat is an almost complete fabrication. It conveniently allows for various measures governments want to take re. Peak Oil: invasion of oil-rich or otherwise strategically pivotal countries; curtailing of civil liberties in the face of popular destitution and unrest; experiments in running concentration camps for the plebs (Guantanamo Bay); the need for scapegoats as a focus for people's anger at TEOTWAWKI.

Before you accuse me of being a nutter DO SOME f***ing READING.

eatyourveg · Post by **eatyourveg** » 16 Dec 2009, 00:36

Ludwig wrote:I have read enough to be convinced that the supposed Al Qaeda threat is an almost complete fabrication. It conveniently allows for various measures governments want to take re. Peak Oil: invasion of oil-rich or otherwise strategically pivotal countries; curtailing of civil liberties in the face of popular destitution and unrest; experiments in running concentration camps for the plebs (Guantanamo Bay); the need for scapegoats as a focus for people's anger at TEOTWAWKI.

Before you accuse me of being a nutter DO SOME f***ing READING.

Actually, I completely agree with you. It doesn't even take reading, just look around. Dots, join, etc. we all know the packdrill.

fifthcolumn · Post by **fifthcolumn** » 16 Dec 2009, 04:21

Actually Ludwig, thinking in paranoid mode another thought crosses my mind:

One possible explanation for the UK government sitting on their arses instead of taking appropriate steps to mitigate is that they know in advance that they're going to bomb Iran and send the economy into the shitter. If all the banks know that too, then they can take big short positions against the pound and the economy in general and make fortunes and balance their books even further. The rich will still be rich, but the rest of us will be dirt poor.

Some paranoid thinking....

ziggy12345 · Post by **ziggy12345** » 16 Dec 2009, 04:26

Ludwig wrote:I have read enough to be convinced that the supposed Al Qaeda threat is an almost complete fabrication. It conveniently allows for various measures governments want to take re. Peak Oil: invasion of oil-rich or otherwise strategically pivotal countries; curtailing of civil liberties in the face of popular destitution and unrest; experiments in running concentration camps for the plebs (Guantanamo Bay); the need for scapegoats as a focus for people's anger at TEOTWAWKI.

Before you accuse me of being a nutter DO SOME f***ing READING.

Watch "The power of nightmares" by Adam Curtis. He made great documentaries before Greg Dyke got the sack and some government arse licker was put in charge of the beeb

lancasterlad · Post by **lancasterlad** » 16 Dec 2009, 07:40

ziggy12345 wrote:Watch "The power of nightmares" by Adam Curtis. He made great documentaries before Greg Dyke got the sack and some government arse licker was put in charge of the beeb

Thanks for this. Just watching it now. Very interesting.

Vortex · Post by **Vortex** » 16 Dec 2009, 08:19

Have to disagree there, the long-term demographics are going to lead to large Muslim minorities/even majorities in major European capitals within 20 years which will have major political, social and cultural implications.

It's called civil war.

Some years ago I was working in Croatia, and so asked everyone about what happened and why.

The explanation I received that it was simply unavoidable: their society had become fragmented so NOBODY felt 'at home'.

This allowed radicals to kick off the war.

I was also told that the UK should prevent Moslem immigration - and I think that this warning was NOT anti-Moslem, but more of an anti-mayhem warning.

It's only a matter of time before the unrest, suicide bombings etc prevalent in much of the world arrive here.

I'm not being anti-anyone here .... BUT .... I can see the trend.

Does ANYONE in this forum deep down in their soul NOT see a more violent future for the UK or Europe?

We already have no-go zones for whites, blacks etc in this country - in 20 years time those zones will become larger and more clearly delineated.

What's that called? Oh ... Balkanisation .... which is another word for civil strife.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 16 Dec 2009, 09:52

Exactly Vortex, couldn't have put it better myself.

Regarding the Power of Nightmares film, which I have seen, let me put through my explanation.

The rise of Islamist idealogy started during the seventies with the percieved failure of Arab Socialism and other secular models throughout the Muslim world.

The Iranian Revolution and the Soviet invasion of Afghanisatan were massive boosters to this away of Islamist radicalism (Iran being a Shia version) and the West supported, funded and cheerleaded the non-Shia Islamist forces for over a decade in Afghanistan and than in the Balkans (the latter is lesser known).

There is no doubt that while the rise of Islamist idealogy in the West among the Muslim minorities is a real and growing issue, governments have exploited extremisim for their own ends, as outlined by the above film - civil rights, invading countries with a hidden oil agenda etc.

That does not mean that Islamist radicalism is a myth!! Just that powerful forces in both the Arab and Western worlds have seeked to exploit, manipulate and try to control this global surge of Muslim fundamentalism.

This is a double edged sword, harnessing the intense faith of Islamist radicalism can achieve your short-term geopolititical ends at the risk of blowback.

Furthermore, the Islamist extremists have a wellknown organisation, called the Muslim Brotherhood which have extensive ties which go deep into the Muslim world and even the West.
For a history of this mysterious organisation, which was founded by British Intelligence back in Egypt in the colonial period, see the following:

http://www.redmoonrising.com/Ikhwan/BritIslam.htm

http://www.redmoonrising.com/Ikhwan/MB.htm

Regarding Europe, the Islamists make it quite clear their intentions; just read what this cleric has to say;

Amayra’s sermon warned that: “…the three percent of the Muslims in Denmark constitute a threat to the future of the kingdom of Denmark. And that should not be a surprise. After all, the Muslims in Yathrib [the city of Medina, before Mohammed moved there from Mecca] constituted less than three percent of the population there. Yet they managed to change Yathrib into Medina. Thus, it should not be a surprise that our Danish brothers manage to bring Islam to all the homes of the Danes. Allah will grant them the victory in their country in order to raise the Caliphate in Denmark.”

Amayra continued, “Afterwards the citizens of the Caliphate (which will be raised in Denmark) will wage war on Oslo, and after they change that city’s name to Medina [for the Arabian holy city] they will fight their neighboring Scandinavian countries in order to join their lands to the territory of the Caliphate. In the next stage, they will wage a holy war and spread the message of Islam to the rest of Europe, until they reach the original city of Medina. Then they will join both cities under the banner of Islam.”

I could go on, but the intentions of these extremist forces are not hidden and it is only us who refuse to listen...at our peril...

PS_RalphW · Post by **PS_RalphW** » 16 Dec 2009, 10:12

Yawn.

Trouble with immigrant cultures is as old as immigration. Several thousand years at least in this country.

In recent centuries I can think of Huguenots, Moslems, Jews, blacks and Moslems (again) being the 'thin edge of the wedge' in this country.

It is cyclical. It will blow over.

This country hasn't had civil war in 400 years.

As for outbreeding the enemy, this is a tactic followed by all fundamentalist religions, certainly isn't limited to Moslems.

CIA demographic data clearly shows that Moslem countries are not breeding faster overall than others.