I don't want to buy a farm. I want a small smallholding.
So did I, the cost seemed to be about 400K.
Much too high.
ALL property prices in this country are much to high. They will fall further. By the time they've finished falling, that smallholding might only cost £250K.
I should add that this additional fall in property prices will further exacerbate the looming pensions crisis, because a lot of people have been relying on perpetually high property prices instead of having a decent pension.
UndercoverElephant wrote:
ALL property prices in this country are much to high. They will fall further. By the time they've finished falling, that smallholding might only cost £250K.
I should add that this additional fall in property prices will further exacerbate the looming pensions crisis, because a lot of people have been relying on perpetually high property prices instead of having a decent pension.
Or maybe not.
One of the other reasons I left was I reckong the odds of having a bout of Argentina style hyperinflation to be greater than the odds of peak oil induced dieoff happening. Uncomfortably higher in fact.
It might end up that house prices take off again due to hyperinflation and the pensions pot becomes viable but in greatly devalued pounds.
Given that my city was already the most violent city in the OECD I didn't want to be there during a slow crash caused by lights out followed by a decades long dieoff never mind a fast crash caused by hyperinflation.
Food security is only part of it.
UndercoverElephant wrote:
ALL property prices in this country are much to high. They will fall further. By the time they've finished falling, that smallholding might only cost £250K.
I should add that this additional fall in property prices will further exacerbate the looming pensions crisis, because a lot of people have been relying on perpetually high property prices instead of having a decent pension.
Or maybe not.
One of the other reasons I left was I reckong the odds of having a bout of Argentina style hyperinflation to be greater than the odds of peak oil induced dieoff happening. Uncomfortably higher in fact.
It might end up that house prices take off again due to hyperinflation and the pensions pot becomes viable but in greatly devalued pounds.
That can only happen if wages also "take off", which isn't going to happen.
House prices are way too high with respect to wages. Even if there is high inflation, that ratio still has to correct itself.
I've finally realised that you lot mostly only come here because you like to argue, which is one of the reasons why I haven't posted much here lately. The other - to be revealed here soon, I hope - will be an inspiration for what can be achieved with determination. (Although I know most of you are so far up your own arses that you won't notice.)
Anyhoo...
I have a multi-prong approach to my pension provision.
State pension. Forget it. Madoff, Sir Allen wotsisname etc are all described as having run Ponzi schemes. No one dares mention the biggest Ponzi scheme to affect the UK - the UK state pension pyramid scheme.
Company final salary pension. Their problem. The AVC and bonus parts, being money purchase add-ons, have largely been moved into index-linked Gilts since about a year.
SIPP invested predominantly in alternative energy companies and investment vehicles and with regular savings into resources, gold, China and agriculture, which can be turned off when the market gets a bit toppy. I usually sell some when I feel the market for these Capitalism- and PO-sensitive investments are "overbought".
My wife's SIPP which, because, to put it bluntly, her life expectancy is limited, should come to me as a lump sum.
Savings into ISA's and straight stockmarket investments, again predominantly into alternative energy and resources, etc stocks.
I aim to cash in the saleable investments to buy food-producing land and to ride the PO theme with locked-in pension investments.
Yeah, Peak Oil has f***ed up the investment mantras.
LastDrop wrote:Only 50% of the people you know have any kind of pension provision and the pot is less than 10K!! **** me, I thought my situation was bad.
They are just normal people I know in Brighton. Most of them simply haven't earned enough money to worry about pensions. Those that had anything to save have been saving for the deposit on a house instead. The only people I know with anything resembling a decent pension are people who work in the public sector and one person who is an IT project manager working in the pensions sector himself. When you are surrounded by other people who have no provision for their old age (no pension fund, no property) then it is easy to not care so much. All of these people are going to have to survive somehow. At least I will own some property when I retire.
Sorry, I've just reread my comment and it could come across as somewhat offhand and callous. I meant it in the sense of 'woah! I'm not in this boat alone' and 'wow, as a nation we're all going to be relying on the public provision'.
I've found this link to an article on Peak Oil and pensions that might be interesting (if a bit depressing towards its conclusion)...
UndercoverElephant wrote:
My only plan is to get hold of a piece of land I can grow vegetables and keep chickens on. I cannot think of anything else constructive to prepare for the future because nobody knows what is going to happen, especially with respect to the global economic/financial system.
Not to be a doomer, but have you looked at the price of land?
While I was going through my "oh fnck what do I do now phase" a couple of years back that exact idea crossed my mind. There was a plot of land right across the street from my front door, more or less an acre from the size of it.
They were asking ninety grand for it.
Agricultural land is much cheaper but you can't buy just a single acre or even two or three.
The other problem you have is that if you manage to get two or three acres outside the city, how are you going to defend it or travel to it without petrol or diesel?
In short the "back to the land" idea only works if you already did it before the exits closed.
Too late. The exits are shut.
I'm just coming on 62. I am slowly (very slowly, and with little help) resurrecting a derelict but livable property and land. I have just short of an acre. At the mo I am just growing stuff and storing for the winter.
Cost of the property here - well, £10.600 + expenses when I bought it. It's up a bit from that now because of the exchange rates. Will the children follow me WTSHTF? I don't know, but they are all at least Peak Oil aware.
Oh, and this is a village of some 300+ people and it is most definitely a _community_!
UndercoverElephant wrote:
My only plan is to get hold of a piece of land I can grow vegetables and keep chickens on. I cannot think of anything else constructive to prepare for the future because nobody knows what is going to happen, especially with respect to the global economic/financial system.
Not to be a doomer, but have you looked at the price of land?
While I was going through my "oh fnck what do I do now phase" a couple of years back that exact idea crossed my mind. There was a plot of land right across the street from my front door, more or less an acre from the size of it.
They were asking ninety grand for it.
Agricultural land is much cheaper but you can't buy just a single acre or even two or three.
The other problem you have is that if you manage to get two or three acres outside the city, how are you going to defend it or travel to it without petrol or diesel?
In short the "back to the land" idea only works if you already did it before the exits closed.
Too late. The exits are shut.
I'm just coming on 62. I am slowly (very slowly, and with little help) resurrecting a derelict but livable property and land. I have just short of an acre. At the mo I am just growing stuff and storing for the winter.
Cost of the property here - well, £10.600 + expenses when I bought it. It's up a bit from that now because of the exchange rates. Will the children follow me WTSHTF? I don't know, but they are all at least Peak Oil aware.
Oh, and this is a village of some 300+ people and it is most definitely a _community_!
Now you're making me seriously consider leaving the UK. I am about to get a CELTA/WEAREDODGY qualification which would mean I can get a job almost anywhere teaching English to adults. I have £100K to use as a deposit, which isn't currently enough to buy a gardenless flat in many parts of the UK. What would it buy me in Hungary?
Right. So I could buy 3600m2 for £30,000 and still have another £50,000 to cover the cost of building a house (which should cover it easily in Hungary, yes?).
Looks like the gates aren't quite shut just yet. There's not all that much keeping me in the UK.
Compare it to a plot with planning permission in Cornwall:
Land with Detailed Planning Permission, Newquay, Cornwall
Building plot for sale close to Porth Beach near Newquay. Full planning permission for a detached bungalow.
Quiet, sunny location at end of cul-de-sac.
UndercoverElephant wrote:Now you're making me seriously consider leaving the UK. I am about to get a CELTA/WEAREDODGY qualification which would mean I can get a job almost anywhere teaching English to adults. I have £100K to use as a deposit, which isn't currently enough to buy a gardenless flat in many parts of the UK. What would it buy me in Hungary?
Around here, you'd get a habitable house with a hectare of land for £100k (which would be about €120k, right?)
biffvernon wrote:You want to teach your kids how to kill people?
Your words not mine. You may be able to play with the subtleties of the rhetorical, but you have a problem in reading what is written and not inferring something rather different.
woodburner wrote:Also teach them how to defend against attack.
It is interesting you interpret this as "You want to teach your kids how to kill people?" There was me thinking I might like to buy some windows from you, now I wonder if I would survive the visit.
Last edited by woodburner on 23 Jun 2009, 15:23, edited 1 time in total.
andrew-l wrote:Is it just me or are we all a really grumpy bunch today?
It's just you.
Actually I'm pretty chilled at the moment. Work's going well, hopefully only a week away from finally moving into our house and 500sqm sw-facing garden that I intend to try and turn into our "pension".
Sure I should be more stressed, but can't think why at the moment.
andrew-l wrote:
Actually I'm pretty chilled at the moment.
Matalan sell cheap jumpers, though with today's temperatures you may have some medical condition.
Work's going well, hopefully only a week away from finally moving into our house and 500sqm sw-facing garden that I intend to try and turn into our "pension".
Sitting on a rural railway line can be very serene, until you realise there's a train coming.
Sure I should be more stressed, but can't think why at the moment.
