A tweet on the Guardian website says Putin wants Cypriot NG and a naval base.
The new Russian empire is sending out feelers.
I say let the banks go broke and to hell with the consequences. The collapse will come soon enough anyway.
Bank Watch ...
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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Little John
Very recent news; The Cypriot finance minister has flown to Moscow to plead for aid, in defiance of calls from Angela Merkel to refrain from entering negotiations with Russia.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt ... -live.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/debt ... -live.html
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RenewableCandy
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adam2
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Latest here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21875246
Banks in Cyprus not expected to open until Teusday now.
Not certain that the TPTB will accept this latest proposal since it appears to be rather vague promises of unknown/uncertain sums of money from future privatisations etc.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21875246
Banks in Cyprus not expected to open until Teusday now.
Not certain that the TPTB will accept this latest proposal since it appears to be rather vague promises of unknown/uncertain sums of money from future privatisations etc.
Last edited by adam2 on 21 Mar 2013, 19:31, edited 1 time in total.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
The folks in charge do seem have managed this situations very badly. There's nothing that can be said now to stop an attempted mass exidous of funds from Cypriot banks as soon as they open.
All that can be done now is to enforce strict control on the money movement. Don't allow cash withdrawals of more than say 500 euros per week for example, levy a tax (like the original 6-10% proposal) on money transfers out of the country... but generally, decisions and communications over the last week have made the situation a lot worse than it would otherwise have been.
All that can be done now is to enforce strict control on the money movement. Don't allow cash withdrawals of more than say 500 euros per week for example, levy a tax (like the original 6-10% proposal) on money transfers out of the country... but generally, decisions and communications over the last week have made the situation a lot worse than it would otherwise have been.
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adam2
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Looking more doomerish by the hour.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21885301
There seems to be a growing feeling of panic and fear that some banks and deposits with them may be doomed.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21885301
There seems to be a growing feeling of panic and fear that some banks and deposits with them may be doomed.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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UndercoverElephant
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Which is why this is not a "liquidity crisis" but something much bigger.clv101 wrote:The folks in charge do seem have managed this situations very badly. There's nothing that can be said now to stop an attempted mass exidous of funds from Cypriot banks as soon as they open.
Exodus indeed.
"We fail to mandate economic sanity because our brains are addled by....compassion." (Garrett Hardin)
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Little John
Oh, I think we both know this was never a liquidity crisis....UndercoverElephant wrote:Which is why this is not a "liquidity crisis" but something much bigger.clv101 wrote:The folks in charge do seem have managed this situations very badly. There's nothing that can be said now to stop an attempted mass exidous of funds from Cypriot banks as soon as they open.
Exodus indeed.
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RenewableCandy
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biffvernon
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RenewableCandy
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Lord Beria3
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http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/ ... lapse.html
Good analysis on the gravity of the Cyprus disaster. This moment, will ib hindsight, be seen as a key breakdown of trust in the banking system and the moment that we moved from a financial universe based on banking to a return to a world based on physical gold and silver.Sinclair: “If Lagarde and the IMF sustain their position that the Troika has the right to tax, confiscate, or haircut the depositor, whatever you want to call it, then what the Troika has announced to the world is that the sacrosanct nature of deposits no longer exists.
This puts the entire concept of ‘insurance’ on deposits in question. This will mean that deposits of size in banks will move to seek other areas of safekeeping because the banking institutions will purely be seen as houses of confiscation.
The dream that no depositor would be hurt by the collapse of the financial world, based on fraudulent over-the-counter-derivatives, triggered by the flushing of Lehman, will be exposed as an absolute and total lie. This will trigger tremendous runs on banks any time that a bank or that system has any financial pressure.
This has the potential to create a revolution. A misstep by Lagarde and the IMF here could do far more damage than what the world witnessed after the collapse and liquidation of Lehman. That is what is at stake here.
The seriousness of this upcoming decision by the IMF, should they in fact decide to steal from depositors, I firmly believe that Mrs. Lagarde and the IMF will go down in history as causing far more financial devastation than the flushing of Lehman.
The story in Cyprus right now is not about capital controls, that was an obvious side effect of this disaster, the story will be this upcoming decision by the IMF. God help us if Mrs. Lagarde and the IMF make one of the greatest mistakes in history.”
Peace always has been and always will be an intermittent flash of light in a dark history of warfare, violence, and destruction
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adam2
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More here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21916102
The amount that may be withdrawn from ATMs has been reduced again, in some cases to as little as 120 euro, and that only if a working machine can be located.
Many businesses only accepting cash payments, due to a general perception that that card or cheque payments into a bank will be at least partialy lost, and might well be gone forever.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21916102
The amount that may be withdrawn from ATMs has been reduced again, in some cases to as little as 120 euro, and that only if a working machine can be located.
Many businesses only accepting cash payments, due to a general perception that that card or cheque payments into a bank will be at least partialy lost, and might well be gone forever.
"Installers and owners of emergency diesels must assume that they will have to run for a week or more"
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Little John
From everything I have gathered so far:
The Cypriot authorities have previously pursued an economic strategy of making Cyprus a very low tax haven for foreign depositors. Consequently, Cyprus' banking sector has taken up a dangerous proportion of its GDP.
The global financial crisis has left Cyprus' banking sector exposed such that they needed bailing out. This has become so severe they have had to call on the assistance of the EU.
The EU has promised to hand over several billion to Cyprus, but only on the condition that they raise 5 billion internally themselves.
The EU has also been called on to bail out other countries recently. But they have not been so punitive with those other countries in terms of the bailout conditions. I can only assume that the reason for this is because (a.) those other countries were too big to fail. That is to say, if they did, they would undoubtedly smash the EU in the process and (b.) the EU Troika politicians are taking advantage of Cyprus' smaller size to allow them to appease their own electorates who are getting restless at the bailouts to other countries. Merkel has got an eye on domestic politics I think.
The EU has not actually spelled out how Cyprus should raise its own money and so the decision to raid depositor's accounts is probably Cyprus' own decision. Not that they have many other realistic options, of course.
The problem for Cyprus is this: if they raid the accounts in the most equitable way, that is to say, they raid them progressively in that the biggest depositors pay the largest amount, not only in absolute terms, but in relative terms as well by paying a larger share of their money, then the big foreign depositors will take their money out of the Cypriot banking system at the earliest opportunity. in turn causing the banking system to fully collapse anyway, ruining forever Cyprus' biggest industry. I dare say, even now after all that has happened, the Cypriot authorities are harbouring the hope that their banking system can be resurrected from this crisis and it can all go back to BAU in due course. All of which is not to mention the Russians who are the biggest depositors of all. It goes without saying that the Cypriot authorities will not want to piss the Russians off if they can help it.
On the other hand, if they disproportionately raid the small depositors, they will have major civil insurrection on their hands, not to mention they will have rendered the EU guarantee of all deposits under 100k as worthless. This, in turn could cause runs on banks in other EU countries not too far down the line from Cyprus because depositors in those banks will no longer trust the 100k guarantee.
Rock and a hard place....
The Cypriot authorities have previously pursued an economic strategy of making Cyprus a very low tax haven for foreign depositors. Consequently, Cyprus' banking sector has taken up a dangerous proportion of its GDP.
The global financial crisis has left Cyprus' banking sector exposed such that they needed bailing out. This has become so severe they have had to call on the assistance of the EU.
The EU has promised to hand over several billion to Cyprus, but only on the condition that they raise 5 billion internally themselves.
The EU has also been called on to bail out other countries recently. But they have not been so punitive with those other countries in terms of the bailout conditions. I can only assume that the reason for this is because (a.) those other countries were too big to fail. That is to say, if they did, they would undoubtedly smash the EU in the process and (b.) the EU Troika politicians are taking advantage of Cyprus' smaller size to allow them to appease their own electorates who are getting restless at the bailouts to other countries. Merkel has got an eye on domestic politics I think.
The EU has not actually spelled out how Cyprus should raise its own money and so the decision to raid depositor's accounts is probably Cyprus' own decision. Not that they have many other realistic options, of course.
The problem for Cyprus is this: if they raid the accounts in the most equitable way, that is to say, they raid them progressively in that the biggest depositors pay the largest amount, not only in absolute terms, but in relative terms as well by paying a larger share of their money, then the big foreign depositors will take their money out of the Cypriot banking system at the earliest opportunity. in turn causing the banking system to fully collapse anyway, ruining forever Cyprus' biggest industry. I dare say, even now after all that has happened, the Cypriot authorities are harbouring the hope that their banking system can be resurrected from this crisis and it can all go back to BAU in due course. All of which is not to mention the Russians who are the biggest depositors of all. It goes without saying that the Cypriot authorities will not want to piss the Russians off if they can help it.
On the other hand, if they disproportionately raid the small depositors, they will have major civil insurrection on their hands, not to mention they will have rendered the EU guarantee of all deposits under 100k as worthless. This, in turn could cause runs on banks in other EU countries not too far down the line from Cyprus because depositors in those banks will no longer trust the 100k guarantee.
Rock and a hard place....
I'd add that Cyprus's banks have also been offering unsustainably high interest rates to depositors, which has been a self-destructive policy.
I imagine that some of the impetus for the "raid on deposits" idea did come from the Euro Group. There have been several comments passed in the media over the last few days around the idea that it's payback-time for the depositors who have been enjoying these unrealistically high rates.
I imagine that some of the impetus for the "raid on deposits" idea did come from the Euro Group. There have been several comments passed in the media over the last few days around the idea that it's payback-time for the depositors who have been enjoying these unrealistically high rates.
Engage in geo-engineering. Plant a tree today.