The Permaculture Association web site lists courses. You can also try Graham Burnett who is a well known Permaculture teacher. There are several other teachers in the London area, but I can't remember their details at the moment. Courses are also listed in Permaculture Magazine and on their web site.jomtones wrote:Permaculture looks interesting too - been watching all the Mollison vids etc. Anyone know somewhere I can study it in the London area? Haven't had much luck searching the web so far.
How did you find out about PO?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Re: Introductions
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Rasputin69
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008, 20:07
- Location: Cheshire/Tyneside
Like many others here, I think I've always 'known' about PO to a certain extent. After 9/11, I remember reading Michael Moore's Dude, Where's My Country and being oddly fascinated by his chapter on the massive waste of plastic in America and how, in the future, people will look to their ancestors and ponder just how and why the hell we took it for granted.
I've always taken to new and/or radical ideas well and while I try my best to value all sides of the argument, the implications PO could mean are wholly concurrent with the type of world I'd like to live and indeed, eventually bring children into. By that, I mean the immense scope for positive change that PO could, should (and to an extent must) bring to our world. As I grew up in the 90s with the huge surge in multimedia technologies, I disagree with anyone who says that PO necessarily means these things are evil. I always cite the internet as an all round benefit of the 21st century. I would, however, like to see children spending more time getting dirty playing football than couping themselves up playing the newest computer games for hours and hours every night. While I enjoyed both of these things as a youngster, moderation is certainly key.
Personally, I know I'm a bit greedy (who isn't, really, when it comes down to it?) but I just want to live in a world which doesn't value money as the central object of praise and the be all and end all of life. I think we owe it to ourselves, as a species, to take a time out, re-evaluate the crucial things in life, and begin establishing how to work for them. Small task, eh?
I've always taken to new and/or radical ideas well and while I try my best to value all sides of the argument, the implications PO could mean are wholly concurrent with the type of world I'd like to live and indeed, eventually bring children into. By that, I mean the immense scope for positive change that PO could, should (and to an extent must) bring to our world. As I grew up in the 90s with the huge surge in multimedia technologies, I disagree with anyone who says that PO necessarily means these things are evil. I always cite the internet as an all round benefit of the 21st century. I would, however, like to see children spending more time getting dirty playing football than couping themselves up playing the newest computer games for hours and hours every night. While I enjoyed both of these things as a youngster, moderation is certainly key.
Personally, I know I'm a bit greedy (who isn't, really, when it comes down to it?) but I just want to live in a world which doesn't value money as the central object of praise and the be all and end all of life. I think we owe it to ourselves, as a species, to take a time out, re-evaluate the crucial things in life, and begin establishing how to work for them. Small task, eh?
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Rasputin69
- Posts: 29
- Joined: 28 Jan 2008, 20:07
- Location: Cheshire/Tyneside
Adding to that slightly, I believe that central to mitigating the effects of PO/Economic/Climate related problems, is the need for people to begin valuing co-operation: I have recently started reading material about ParEcon (Participatory economics) Here's a rough example:
While helping to prepare a Christmas dinner for myself and my university mates, part of the reason it was such an enjoyable day, was not just because of the fine food, but because of the fact that everyone mucked in and did their bit to help prepare it. There may have only been five of us there, but we all did various amounts of peeling, chopping, scrubbing, frying, baking etc and because we all wanted to be doing it, it didn't at all seem a chore and the end result was a lovely meal with good comapny. I believe that if much more of daily life, in particular work, was like this, there would be less unhappiness and resentment and more visioning toward an enjoyable and sustainable future for everyone. Obviously not all of life's ills can be treated in this manner (nor should they), but if we start working for ourselves rather than always just for a faceless company and a paycheque, then we will be doing a lot to put into place what I would call a viable and desirable infrastructure. At least thats the views of a student
Anyone interested in reading more: I Would recommend the introductions to parecon at: www.zmag.org[/i]
ps. I am well aware that there are people on here far more versed in politics and social thories than me, but I am merely adding my two pence to the pile and saying workers co-ops, to some degree, are a huge part of the solution. Thanks.
While helping to prepare a Christmas dinner for myself and my university mates, part of the reason it was such an enjoyable day, was not just because of the fine food, but because of the fact that everyone mucked in and did their bit to help prepare it. There may have only been five of us there, but we all did various amounts of peeling, chopping, scrubbing, frying, baking etc and because we all wanted to be doing it, it didn't at all seem a chore and the end result was a lovely meal with good comapny. I believe that if much more of daily life, in particular work, was like this, there would be less unhappiness and resentment and more visioning toward an enjoyable and sustainable future for everyone. Obviously not all of life's ills can be treated in this manner (nor should they), but if we start working for ourselves rather than always just for a faceless company and a paycheque, then we will be doing a lot to put into place what I would call a viable and desirable infrastructure. At least thats the views of a student
Anyone interested in reading more: I Would recommend the introductions to parecon at: www.zmag.org[/i]
ps. I am well aware that there are people on here far more versed in politics and social thories than me, but I am merely adding my two pence to the pile and saying workers co-ops, to some degree, are a huge part of the solution. Thanks.
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Sand Dancer Nick
- Posts: 13
- Joined: 07 Dec 2008, 23:35
I'm new here and learned of PO through reading Alex Scarrow's novel LAST LIGHT. It was a brilliant conspiracy thriller which had elements of zombie movies and also apocalyptic 1970s fiction, the 'we're all doomed' era. Then having read the author's note at the end, I Googled Peak Oil, came across a few sites including LATOC - I do post occasionally on there but lurk more - some great items can be found which I, being a self-published writer, can use as research; on the other hand there are some people out on there who can't wait for TEOTWAWKI to happen. Through Alex Scarrow I found this board(link from LATOC re: Last Light sequel) and have found much of use and interest.
Really took the red pill this year by doing more reading on it - THE LONG EMERGENCY by James Howard Kunstler is recommended. I do like this man's take on the American dream of suburbia and how that dream is over when PO hits hard. I was once someone unaware of all this - now I'm getting used to it. I don't talk about this to my wife much but am hinting at things - I get the feeling she gets too wrapped up in some reality shows like Britain's Got No Talent and plastic pumpkins much of the time. Though I have to say she's enjoying SURVIVORS . . . I have told her that I am beginning a veggie garden New Year and surprisingly she has supported this idea; I think the prices in the WallyMart have convinced her. She is out of work for a month until her contract gets renewed(a certain insurance company wants to save some cash), I work in the construction industry as a lorry driver and groundworker and scaffolder - now we are seeing real signs of collapse - been in this game for 20 years and do at least have a good redundancy package to gain if I get laid off. But at least I get to go out and about - and generally observe the sheeple, the blinkered masses, happily being oh-so-materialistic this year fawning over the latest things which will be useless when the power goes. And laughing in my mind. I need the job to pay for the roof over our heads and bills, etc. Fact of life.
I'm doing a bit of prepping as well - bits of tinned food here and there, always checking shelf lives and I think the growing our own stuff will benefit us health wise too. She's diabetic - lack of insulin post-PO will be an issue. We downsized our car recently - wish we could afford a Prius - and we do appreciate what we have right now and make the most of it while we can - I still think I'm more aware than her on certain things.
I do remind her 'remember the Roman Empire fell because it became too decadent' when she thinks 'this recession will pass' . . . here the banks have gotten too greedy and decadent, and 'the blinkered masses' in general have this 'I want it now!' culture and then moan and whinge about the debt they are in.
Really took the red pill this year by doing more reading on it - THE LONG EMERGENCY by James Howard Kunstler is recommended. I do like this man's take on the American dream of suburbia and how that dream is over when PO hits hard. I was once someone unaware of all this - now I'm getting used to it. I don't talk about this to my wife much but am hinting at things - I get the feeling she gets too wrapped up in some reality shows like Britain's Got No Talent and plastic pumpkins much of the time. Though I have to say she's enjoying SURVIVORS . . . I have told her that I am beginning a veggie garden New Year and surprisingly she has supported this idea; I think the prices in the WallyMart have convinced her. She is out of work for a month until her contract gets renewed(a certain insurance company wants to save some cash), I work in the construction industry as a lorry driver and groundworker and scaffolder - now we are seeing real signs of collapse - been in this game for 20 years and do at least have a good redundancy package to gain if I get laid off. But at least I get to go out and about - and generally observe the sheeple, the blinkered masses, happily being oh-so-materialistic this year fawning over the latest things which will be useless when the power goes. And laughing in my mind. I need the job to pay for the roof over our heads and bills, etc. Fact of life.
I'm doing a bit of prepping as well - bits of tinned food here and there, always checking shelf lives and I think the growing our own stuff will benefit us health wise too. She's diabetic - lack of insulin post-PO will be an issue. We downsized our car recently - wish we could afford a Prius - and we do appreciate what we have right now and make the most of it while we can - I still think I'm more aware than her on certain things.
I do remind her 'remember the Roman Empire fell because it became too decadent' when she thinks 'this recession will pass' . . . here the banks have gotten too greedy and decadent, and 'the blinkered masses' in general have this 'I want it now!' culture and then moan and whinge about the debt they are in.
'The honey bee is vital to the environment! Every year in America, they pollinate six billion dollars worth of crops! If you kill the bee, you're gonna kill the crop! If you kill the plants, you'll kill the people!'
Yes it does strike a chord. You might find this site interesting....Sand Dancer Nick wrote:I do remind her 'remember the Roman Empire fell because it became too decadent' when she thinks 'this recession will pass' . . . here the banks have gotten too greedy and decadent, and 'the blinkered masses' in general have this 'I want it now!' culture and then moan and whinge about the debt they are in.
http://www.darkage.fsnet.co.uk/
....particularly, this page under "theory".....
http://www.darkage.fsnet.co.uk/HistoryS ... htm#Causes
...which opened my eyes to the principle of resource shortages not being directly responsible for societal collapse (per se), but an unwillingness to adapt being the key issue. Which is why I feel a deep-seated disdain for the NIMBY/BANANA fraternity.
Also, in Orlov's book, "Reinventing Collapse", he cites one of the prime ingredients of the USSR collapse being the populace losing faith in their leaders.
Olduvai Theory (Updated) (Reviewed)
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
Hello, obligatory intro post.
I've been lurking for a while but I'll try and find the time to contribute more.
I'm a relatively new PO convert. We did a London -> rural downshift 3 years ago for 'spending more time with family' reasons and it's been a logical progression from there; tipping point was around a year ago.
After investigating lots of options we've decided to join a community in Cornwall to help fast-track our transition. We move in August all being well.
We've started blogging about our soon-to-be new life here although I'm concious that it's mostly theory and no practice so far.
That's me.
I've been lurking for a while but I'll try and find the time to contribute more.
I'm a relatively new PO convert. We did a London -> rural downshift 3 years ago for 'spending more time with family' reasons and it's been a logical progression from there; tipping point was around a year ago.
After investigating lots of options we've decided to join a community in Cornwall to help fast-track our transition. We move in August all being well.
We've started blogging about our soon-to-be new life here although I'm concious that it's mostly theory and no practice so far.
That's me.
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lancasterlad
- Posts: 359
- Joined: 22 Jun 2007, 06:29
- Location: North Lancashire
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happychicken
- Posts: 210
- Joined: 23 Oct 2008, 17:51
- Location: NW England
I've not spotted this thread before.
Like lots of others on here I became aware of peak oil gradually, but I've definitely known about it since at least 2003 because I came across something I'd written in an old diary.
It really hit me in 2007-8 when The Guardian started talking about peak oil a lot and I sent off for Vernon Coleman's book "Oil Apocalypse" after I saw a full page advert for it in the paper.
Then, by chance whilst I was reading Oil Apocalypse someone on an environment forum I'm on suggested I read The Party's Over, which Vernon Coleman mentions many times in his book.
After reading The Party's over I joined the "Peak Oil News forums" and ODAC and discovered the Wolf at the Door website and somehow ended up on here.
Like others have said, peak oil is at once terrifying and exciting.
The strange thing for me was that it suddenly seemed to make sense of the world and everything happening in it, and continues to do so.
Like lots of others on here I became aware of peak oil gradually, but I've definitely known about it since at least 2003 because I came across something I'd written in an old diary.
It really hit me in 2007-8 when The Guardian started talking about peak oil a lot and I sent off for Vernon Coleman's book "Oil Apocalypse" after I saw a full page advert for it in the paper.
Then, by chance whilst I was reading Oil Apocalypse someone on an environment forum I'm on suggested I read The Party's Over, which Vernon Coleman mentions many times in his book.
After reading The Party's over I joined the "Peak Oil News forums" and ODAC and discovered the Wolf at the Door website and somehow ended up on here.
Like others have said, peak oil is at once terrifying and exciting.
The strange thing for me was that it suddenly seemed to make sense of the world and everything happening in it, and continues to do so.
Believe in the future - Back to Nature
Just like the First World War was, to begin with.happychicken wrote: Like others have said, peak oil is at once terrifying and exciting.
"The lesson of history is that no one learns from history."
"We're just waiting, looking skyward as the days go down / Someone promised there'd be answers if we stayed around."
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the_lyniezian
- Posts: 1125
- Joined: 17 Oct 2009, 11:40
- Location: South Bernicia
- Contact:
I came across the place looking for- of all things- reviews/episode guides to the 1970s original version of Survivors, which we've been watching at home- I've been getting into it since I've long been a fan of sci-fi, alternate realities and "what ifs". That and being something of a one-time greenie who has gone over to the dark side... (you should see how much time, sadly, I spend on the internet, for example), and being a Christian thinking about issues of our present materialistic age (and my involvement in it) attracted me a bit.
To be fair the whole "Peak Oil" concept is rather new to me- I have come across it on alternatehistory.com before (in the Future History section)- but that's it. I have, however, realised there is going to be a time when oil is going to become scarce- an old children's science encyclyoaedia I read as a kid (when new)- dating from around 1993- suggested oil only had 40 years of reserves left, and gas around 60. That puts things well in my potential lifetime, and gives us not long even based on 1990s estimates. I doubt they dealt with the rise of China, India et al. as economic powers and consumers back then.
I must find some ways of cutting down- even if it's only less internet, less telly and less washing clothes at 60 degrees...
To be fair the whole "Peak Oil" concept is rather new to me- I have come across it on alternatehistory.com before (in the Future History section)- but that's it. I have, however, realised there is going to be a time when oil is going to become scarce- an old children's science encyclyoaedia I read as a kid (when new)- dating from around 1993- suggested oil only had 40 years of reserves left, and gas around 60. That puts things well in my potential lifetime, and gives us not long even based on 1990s estimates. I doubt they dealt with the rise of China, India et al. as economic powers and consumers back then.
I must find some ways of cutting down- even if it's only less internet, less telly and less washing clothes at 60 degrees...
I heard about Peak Oil back in about 2002/03 .. and I had a blog then and posted about it. On various forums I've been involved with since, I've mentioned it and popped up a link to LATOC. No one has ever replied with "zomg, it's TEOTWAWKI.."
I mentioned it to my other half a couple of times over the last 2 years and she's not really taken it in. Until a couple of weeks ago when we had a proper discussion on it... and the implications. We've both been frantically beavering away on the intertubes finding out info'. Initially on LATOC.. but seeing as that has gone tits-up, I looked about for (ok, Googled) a UK LATOC. And this site came up. You all spell colour and fibre correctly... so I joined.
As for my outlook on Peak Oil. I'm pretty happy about it, though totally unprepared. (except for some chickens... so pop round for scrambled eggs after TEOTWAWKI...)
I mentioned it to my other half a couple of times over the last 2 years and she's not really taken it in. Until a couple of weeks ago when we had a proper discussion on it... and the implications. We've both been frantically beavering away on the intertubes finding out info'. Initially on LATOC.. but seeing as that has gone tits-up, I looked about for (ok, Googled) a UK LATOC. And this site came up. You all spell colour and fibre correctly... so I joined.
As for my outlook on Peak Oil. I'm pretty happy about it, though totally unprepared. (except for some chickens... so pop round for scrambled eggs after TEOTWAWKI...)
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emordnilap
- Posts: 14815
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
Welcome postie (are you a postie?)except for some chickens... so pop round for scrambled eggs after TEOTWAWKI...)
Chickens are great. What have you got?
We've just spent all day making a new chook run - whole family involved- you can't beat a day doing something practical.
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Frederick Douglass