Britain and the Obsession with Solar Power

Bozzio · Post by **Bozzio** » 01 Dec 2007, 17:32

As an installer of heating products, fossil fuel based as well as renewable, I can tell you that people in the UK are definitely not interested in solar, especially when they learn of the cost and what it actually saves them (or doesn't save them) each year.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Dec 2007, 18:09

Sunshine map:

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 01 Dec 2007, 18:48

I tried to have an email conversation with Peter a couple of weeks back. It started off quite well then suddenly he wrote to tell me that I'd confirmed his view of idiot british people who had a monty python attitude of blind cheerfulness in the face of disaster and that our conversation was at an end.

He even went so far as to accuse me of copying and pasting my first email from a novel, apparently somehow upset that I'd fooled him into engaging in a conversation by writing something profoundly doomerish, only to get all cheerful and positive later. I was a bit disappointed as he's written some good semi-autobiographical material, some of which he'd already shared with me.

I tried to write back and explain that it's the british way to respond to seemingly inevitable doom with gallows humour ("always look on the bright side of death" etc) but alas was met with stony silence.

Personally I'm in no doubt as to how hard things could be after a collapse. I respond to that by trying to learn skills i think will be useful, and making friends with like-minded people, and moving my life as fast as I'm financially, physically and psychologically able towards something more self-sufficient. But in the meantime, some sense of cheerfulness seems entirely appropriate. So my efforts on an allotment are pathetic if I wanted to feed myself all year; but you have to start to learn to grow food somehow. So I'm planning to put solar panels on my boat roof and get off-grid. It's not low-tech and I doubt it would be sustainable or achievable for everyone, but at least I'm getting used to a low-power environment. You have to take whatever steps you can, and maybe it won't be enough when the shit hits the fan, but nothing in life is guaranteed.

Being mean and unpleasant and dismissive to people who won't immediately run with their family to the hills is hardly productive if you want to save people. You need to help people prepare. You need to be patient and teach. Becoming a true-believing-doomer does not automatically lead to acceptance of the misanthrope manifesto.

People need time to ready themselves, and mostly they need people to help them. That's why i started emailing Peter to ask him how he'd gotten to the level of self-sufficiency he'd achieved - because I couldn't see my own path from here to there and I needed some insight and encouragement. Instead I got impatience, frustration, personal attacks and dismissiveness. It was a shame.

He does, however, respect Norman Church, so perhaps not all Brits are lost.

bobthebaker · Post by **bobthebaker** » 01 Dec 2007, 18:55

Bozzio wrote:As an installer of heating products, fossil fuel based as well as renewable, I can tell you that people in the UK are definitely not interested in solar, especially when they learn of the cost and what it actually saves them (or doesn't save them) each year.

Rough how much are the hot water and pv panels and installation Bozzio? I'm trying to get the missus interested.

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 01 Dec 2007, 20:30

Glancing back to that sunshine map, it seems Australia, Chad and (I didn't realize this) Tibet, seem to be the places to head for. Unless you have a boat with pv on the roof. There seems to be a good spot off Brazil and another in the Equatorial East Pacific. How sea-worthy is a narrow boat?

Post by **mikepepler** » 01 Dec 2007, 20:53

Tess wrote:He does, however, respect Norman Church, so perhaps not all Brits are lost.

No disrespect to Norman, who has given some great talks at PeakSpeak, but that tells us quite a bit about Peter and his outlook...

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 01 Dec 2007, 21:26

MacG wrote:It looks more and more like "Peter Goodchild and the Obsession with Britain"

Defo. The Netherlands have a far higher population density than us (and much more Solar) not only that but they're mostly below sea-level. Ditto Bangla-desh.

You know, if I didn't know any better I'd be guessing some British bird has just given our Pete the cold shoulder...

Totally_Baffled · Post by **Totally_Baffled** » 01 Dec 2007, 21:48

Please bear with me (I have had a couple if you know what I mean

)

I see the "ultimate doomer" point of view a bit like Pascals wager but in reverse.

Pascals wager refers to believing in god just in case its true, as if you are wrong it doesn't matter since the outcome is the same for you and all the other non believers (ie nothing happens after you die)

In other words, if god does exist, and you believe in god you go to heaven when you die, if you don't believe but you pretend (eg pascals wager) then you still go to heaven, if you just dont believe then you go to hell.

With the Uber doomer scenario - there is almost no point in believing - since the outcome will be the same regardless of your belief and /or resulting preparation. In this scenario everyone is going to die , and horribly too. (ok this maybe an exagerration but you know what I mean)

So in the response to Peter Goodchild, what is he suggesting we do? Close down the powerswitch website because we are all DOOMED in the UK anyway?

Mike P and Powerswitch James - will Peters posts mean powerswitch is irrelevant?

I would love the UK to pull through post peak - just to prove that twat wrong...

MisterE · Post by **MisterE** » 01 Dec 2007, 23:24

Been up to my neck in work at the mo, wnating to read this thread to find out wtf is going on with this crazy statement, gave up reading his last doomer post - havent read niether the guy seems like a total c*ck to me. Will try and catch up though.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 02 Dec 2007, 03:38

Totally_Baffled wrote:I would love the UK to pull through post peak - just to prove that twat wrong...

Start another Transition Town then.

Post by **mikepepler** » 02 Dec 2007, 08:29

Totally_Baffled wrote:Mike P and Powerswitch James - will Peters posts mean powerswitch is irrelevant?

No, of course not. Even if we are all doomed in the UK, then there is still the chance to mitigate some of the pain on the way down, plus the fact that you will be able to die knowing you did at least try. If we give up without trying then we'll never know if we could have made it.

Norm · Post by **Norm** » 02 Dec 2007, 09:50

removed double post - computer glitch

Norm · Post by **Norm** » 02 Dec 2007, 09:56

MisterE wrote:Been up to my neck in work at the mo, wnating to read this thread to find out wtf is going on with this crazy statement, gave up reading his last doomer post - havent read niether the guy seems like a total c*ck to me. Will try and catch up though.

I have read all his posts and his website. He seems very clued up to me. Trouble is I think he has become a sort of Peak Oil snob and looks down on us lesser mortals with disdain! He thinks he can Out Doomer everyone!
I think others are in danger of becoming like this too.

MisterE · Post by **MisterE** » 02 Dec 2007, 10:41

Thanks Dinor, I'm about to have a read up myself. That said PO is one thing and survival is another. I personally believe that many in PO have got a good few things wrong. In addition I think PO will effect countries differently. I also don?t fear PO I'm not that bothered really, its a natural process. Plus regarding the UK we have lived on nothing many times before, I grew up with no heating, little food, with 9 in my family, we had to grown our own in the garden, as lads we'd drink rain water or water from streams when out, had no money, often had to fight off people that wanted hurt you. PO is all blown way out of proportion. PO only has the propensity for a range of difficult scenario?s to arise ? nothing is fact. There is no PO guru that is all knowing, not one person can predict human endeavour in the face of adversity to state this will be the exact outcome. Well I?m going to read the thread now then I?m off for breakfast to clam down because I know this guy is going to post sheer nonsense based on his last doomer and wrong post

PS to Mike, damn right this site is uselful and not just for peak oil its not a forum for peak oil it?s a place that people can come and get prepared for downturn in life be it PO, illness, handicap, loss of job, recession. This place will show you how to live comfortably on a lot less. Please explain to me how that has no use. Like I always say, prepare for life ? squirrel and nuts ? but live in the now!

RevdTess · Post by **RevdTess** » 02 Dec 2007, 10:46

Quite Right