Pension???

[mikepepler]

20k is not enough really for some land I would have thought?

Assuming you're thinking of near Cardiff, here's plenty in South Wales:
http://www.woodlands.co.uk/buying-a-woo ... uth-wales/

[Pippa]

Pensions have worked for a very short period of time, really it's only the people who have retired in the last 20 years who have really scored.

In the next 30 years as millions upon millions of us turn from young to old with less resources to have there's going to be one massive "pile up" with or without the demise of the stock market - that ugly truth is just going to make it a whole load worse!

Someone once wrote, "if you want to save to have a cheese burger tomorrow then you have to save a cheese burger today".

As far as I can see that neatly sums it up; its impossible. The cheese burger represents 100% of what you need today, it is also 100% of what you need tomorrow. We can't save for tomorrow because we need what we have for today. Believe otherwize and you might be deluding yourself. Only the most powerful attain this; off the backs of the rest (check your history files for the proof).
Pensions have only worked because we have been in a unique time in history (bubble) where population has increased along with the availability of stuff (energy transforming land and materials into a complete bonanza for human life).

Enjoy life and live in today, forget about pensions in the conventional (last 30 years) sense. Pension is a the ability to keep family and soul together and do physical things. Of course, if you already have invested in pension (like many of us have) do your best to rescue it but don't stress to much over it.

Being peak aware might help you avoid being at the front line when things start to mysteriously disintegrate........

[Ippoippo]

20k is not enough really for some land I would have thought?

Assuming you're thinking of near Cardiff, here's plenty in South Wales:
http://www.woodlands.co.uk/buying-a-woo ... uth-wales/

Thanks for that link.

Most of it is in the west, though that's kind cool because it's where most of my family are..... in fact this one is VERY close to my family (http://www.woodlands.co.uk/buying-a-woo ... hill-wood/).
Come to think of it, I remember seeing that sign when I went to visit there back in March.

The only issue with woodland, is being able to grow food on it. Obviously though, I could sell the wood for fuel (and use it myself)

[mikepepler]

The only issue with woodland, is being able to grow food on it. Obviously though, I could sell the wood for fuel (and use it myself)

Shouldn't be a problem - one of the key features in permaculture is the "food forest". The idea is to set up your woodland to produce food as well as timber and firewood (and you can still help out the wildlife too). This might be a mix of trees producing fruit or nuts, shrubs with edible berries, perennials with edible leaves at the ground layer, etc. I guess you can squeeze a traditional veg garden in somewhere too.

The neat bit is that much of the food might not look edible, as it could be non-traditional plants (see book: Plants for a future), so you would be less likely to get people stealing your food.

Oh, and if you want some meat, you can always hunt rabbits or deer - they're at plague proportions in some areas, and can damage young trees.

Granted, you can't get permission to build a house in it right now, but maybe planning laws will change in future, or maybe in a few years there'll be bigger problems to worry about in our society than someone living in the woods illegally, and nobody will stop you...

As you might have guessed, I'm a big fan of woodland! We're in the process of buying one - more news to come when the purchase is complete...

Oh, and remember - I'm not an expert in any of this - just learning as I go along, so do go and read the books or get some more informed opinions!