Truth, realism and the miserable state of western philosophy

[northernmonkey]

I see the wave function being discussed here, like it is in so many other places, as if it is a real thing in the world in and of itself. It's not, its a mathematical tool of convenience invented by minds to make calculations possible. Nobody actually knows what is happening at the double slit. But, they can map out the probabilities of what the outcomes of what is happening might be. Hence the wave function. And yes, something as yet unexplained is indeed happening at these small scales when we try and measure them. But, we don't know what the answer is yet. There is no reason, however, to assume the mathematical collapse of a probability wave based on a mathematical function that take place when measuring at these very small scales is a real, actual, physical collapse of a real, actual, physical cloud of probabilities. Even saying that sounds stupid. Because it is.

We just don't know what is happening. That's all. If we did, we wouldn't need a wave function.

[UndercoverElephant]

I see the wave function being discussed here, like it is in so many other places, as if it is a real thing in the world in and of itself. It's not...

Says who?

There is deep disagreement over what the wave function is, and the disagreements are both serious and extremely important. The philosophical implications are huge.

And yes, something as yet unexplained is indeed happening at these small scales when we try and measure them.

This has been explained! It was explained by the greatest mathematician of the 20th century. The problem is that mainstream science could not accept the explanation, and still refuses to accept it. John Von Neumann said that this stuff about "small scales" is a load of arbitrary nonsense. The unexplained something doesn't just apply at small scales. It applies to the whole of reality. But the scientific community cannot accept Von Neumann's answer, because it involves a non-physical entity, and it goes against the whole history of science to even seriously contemplate acknowledging the existence of anything of the sort.

But, we don't know what the answer is yet. We just don't know what is happening.

Speak for yourself. I believe Von Neumann was correct, and also that the scientific community can, and eventually will, accept this. How long it will take I do not know. Maybe measured in decades.

[Default0ptions]

I’m absolutely 100 percent with you on this UE and with the impossible hole that western philosophy has dug itself into.

It’s well past time for some ‘back to basics’ work and a review of the fundamentals of philosophy and what it’s actually about - which is trying to understand the lives we live and the world we do this in.

Philosophy has been reduced and tortured into some kind of Procrustean bed by academics writing almost meaningless books to each other squirming on the very pin they couldn’t decide how many angels could dance on in the first place!

Long may this thread continue!

[johnny]

Philosophy has been reduced and tortured into some kind of Procrustean bed by academics writing almost meaningless books to each other squirming on the very pin they couldn’t decide how many angels could dance on in the first place!
Long may this thread continue!

Here here! The beauty of philosophy...everyone's angels are the right answer! Miserable state of western philosophy...no different than the miserable state of Eastern philosophy....Northern philosophy.....Southern philosophy! What do the penguins think...we need them to fill in for Antarctica philosophy!

[Default0ptions]

Since you clearly have nothing to contribute to the discussion why are you posting? Does it help you with your obvious inferiority complex?

[johnny]

Since you clearly have nothing to contribute to the discussion why are you posting? Does it help you with your obvious inferiority complex?

I was agreeing with you! Geez...you say something that isn't proto-typical prep this, end of that, and makes perfect sense to the value of philosophy and you want to bash me for agreeing with you?

As far as an inferiority complex...well....that wasn't what I was known for at all, back in the day. I've always been a pain in the backside of course, and was a great target for TPTB on any website. But how many PhD's need to be discredited in real time before it is obvious to anyone that "inferiority" ain't the right word?

[Default0ptions]

Since you clearly have nothing to contribute to the discussion why are you posting? Does it help you with your obvious inferiority complex?

I was agreeing with you! Geez...you say something that isn't proto-typical prep this, end of that, and makes perfect sense to the value of philosophy and you want to bash me for agreeing with you?

As far as an inferiority complex...well....that wasn't what I was known for at all, back in the day. I've always been a pain in the backside of course, and was a great target for TPTB on any website. But how many PhD's need to be discredited in real time before it is obvious to anyone that "inferiority" ain't the right word?

Yeah sorry Johnny, I owe you an apology

[johnny]

Yeah sorry Johnny, I owe you an apology

Oh please. You don't owe me anything.