Peak Power Switch

ujoni08 · Post by **ujoni08** » 21 Jun 2013, 10:47

Agreed. Most of us have talked about it and been making changes for years, and now PS often has less to say about the energy descent, so we descend into squabbles about politics, etc. Or maybe that's always been there, but just more obvious lately. Where's Ludwig? I used to enjoy some of his rants

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 21 Jun 2013, 10:50

careful_eugene wrote:It's like finding a really cool band that no one else has heard of, then losing interest when they become mainstream.

How right you are. Thank you.

emordnilap · Post by **emordnilap** » 21 Jun 2013, 10:53

ujoni08 wrote:Where's Ludwig? I used to enjoy some of his rants

You're not the only one to miss him. Hope he's well and not too depressed.

BritDownUnder · Post by **BritDownUnder** » 21 Jun 2013, 11:01

If nothing else this forum has got me into gardening in a very big way. My life may very well depend on it in the not so different future.

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Jun 2013, 16:54

ujoni08 wrote:Agreed. Most of us have talked about it and been making changes for years, and now PS often has less to say about the energy descent, so we descend into squabbles about politics, etc. Or maybe that's always been there, but just more obvious lately. Where's Ludwig? I used to enjoy some of his rants

Talking about it and making personal changes when it wasn't really biting in everyday life is one thing.

Dealing with it as the reality begins to bite is inevitably going to involve politics and is inevitably going to get more heated. What some of you lot seem to be complaining about is that it is no longer a polite, tree-hugging, intellectual and philosophical pursuit and is all getting a bit messy and real. All of which is going to mean politics and economics is going to get in on the act. Politics and economics are, after all, nothing more than the means by which humans collectively organise themselves and and it is the way in which we shortly choose to do precisely that which will determine how successfully or otherwise we progress though this unfolding crisis. For example, what do you lot think all of the political crap going on around the world right now is actually about? How can any of you possibly think that debates about economics and politics are not at the heart of any discussion about Peak oil and its consequences?

Frankly, this is all sounding like a bit of a winge-fest. Don't misunderstand me, I am as capable of a good winge as the next guy.....

But, really, get a grip folks.

Aurora · Post by **Aurora** » 21 Jun 2013, 18:57

stevecook172001 wrote:
ujoni08 wrote:Agreed. Most of us have talked about it and been making changes for years, and now PS often has less to say about the energy descent, so we descend into squabbles about politics, etc. Or maybe that's always been there, but just more obvious lately. Where's Ludwig? I used to enjoy some of his rants
Talking about it and making personal changes when it wasn't really biting in everyday life is one thing.

Dealing with it as the reality begins to bite is inevitably going to involve politics and is inevitably going to get more heated. What some of you lot seem to be complaining about is that it is no longer a polite, tree-hugging, intellectual and philosophical pursuit and is all getting a bit messy and real. All of which is going to mean politics and economics is going to get in on the act. Politics and economics are, after all, nothing more than the means by which humans collectively organise themselves and and it is the way in which we shortly choose to do precisely that which will determine how successfully or otherwise we progress though this unfolding crisis. For example, what do you lot think all of the political crap going on around the world right now is actually about? How can any of you possibly think that debates about economics and politics are not at the heart of any discussion about Peak oil and its consequences?

Frankly, this is all sounding like a bit of a winge-fest. Don't misunderstand me, I am as capable of a good winge as the next guy.....

But, really, get a grip folks.

Firstly, pleae refrain from referring to forum members as 'you lot'. We are (in the main) intelligent individuals and not items to be bought and sold at auction. Thank you.

Politics and economics are, after all, nothing more than the means by which humans collectively organise themselves

In today's greed-ridden world I think you'll find that 'politics and economics' are the means by which politicians, the bankers and corporations keep the sheeple in place.

You're deluded if you think that the democratic process is at work anywhere on this scorched planet of ours.

We're ****** and you know it.

PowerSwitch is 'in the noise' and you know it.

It's game over I'm afraid. Get used to it.

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » 21 Jun 2013, 19:26

clv101 wrote:General interest in peak oil peaked around 2009-10. We're way past peak.

I would venture 2004-2006. By 2009-2010 it was becoming obvious that the current peak or plateau wasn't. Give it a few years, it'll come back, and the same ideas can be reused.

Ralph · Post by **Ralph** » 21 Jun 2013, 19:26

RalphW wrote:The Oil Drum has been bemoaning the same the last few months.

Their most informed and witty poster has left.

Stuart left a long, long time ago. Rockman is over at po.com

Potemkin Villager · Post by **Potemkin Villager** » 21 Jun 2013, 19:45

Catweazle wrote:Since the real-world effects started we've all been a bit too busy to spend hours debating the subject.

I agree 100% Cat and remain puzzled as to how mega posters here can spare the time to post so much. Some have managed over ten times as many posts as myself over the life of the site!

ujoni08 · Post by **ujoni08** » 21 Jun 2013, 21:38

Don't worry, Steve... I'm very much on board with all those aspects, too. I can see how the wording of my post implied otherwise...

Little John · Post by **Little John** » 21 Jun 2013, 23:59

ujoni08 wrote:Don't worry, Steve... I'm very much on board with all those aspects, too. I can see how the wording of my post implied otherwise...

No worries mate. My post wasn't really directed at anyone in particular. You just happened to be the unfortunate one I pressed "reply" to....

careful_eugene · Post by **careful_eugene** » 22 Jun 2013, 20:07

BritDownUnder wrote:If nothing else this forum has got me into gardening in a very big way. My life may very well depend on it in the not so different future.

Me too, probably spending more time at the lottie than my wife would like though.

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 22 Jun 2013, 22:47

Where I disagree is the idea that peak oil has gone mainstream. Most ordinary people still haven't heard of the idea and even in the broadsheets, PO is usually referred to in discussions on energy as a theory.

The Sunday Times did a big article on Britains future energy policy and did not mention PO once! So no, PO is still very much in the fringes.

As for the forum, it has moved more political, but that is inevitable as we now deal with the long-term decline of industrial civilisation. Debates about who gets what in a shrinking (or at best stagnating economy with any growth coming from asset inflation) will get more heated and at times unpleasant.

The rich won't want to go back to 70's style taxation, the middle classes will want to keep their privilages and the poor will not want any cuts to their welfare benefits. The elderly will want to protect their state pensions and the public sector will want to keep their final salary schemes promised by politicians in a era of perpetual growth.

As Greer says, try to opt out of the whole thing as much as possible and embrace poverty rather than have it forced on you down the line.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 23 Jun 2013, 17:05

You're right: better-known but not yet mainstream. To put it in Everett Rogers' terms (used for decades in marketing and the like) PO has moved from the "pioneers" to the "Early adopters". "Early Majority" comes next, followed by "Mainstream".

Post by **clv101** » 23 Jun 2013, 21:53

Lord Beria3 wrote:Where I disagree is the idea that peak oil has gone mainstream.

"Peak oil" the term, Hubert, the relationship between discovery and extraction, EROI... that's not mainstream.

However, the concept that the period of cheap energy is over is mainstream, EIA forecasts are falling year on year... less than a decade ago mainstream projections were for 130 million barrels a day at $30 by 2020. That thinking is no more. Energy security is now seen as a major challenge.

Peak oil has entered the mainstream - but not the simple cartoon Hubert first drew for us.