Critical thinking

[emordnilap]

Our single-minded focus on the tailpipe and while completely ignoring the gas gauge is the most obtuse and deadly blind spot in the history of man.

This applies across virtually the whole range of today's problems - witness the vast sums poured into the search for a cure for cancer but zero money or words about the causes; the fabled 'gene for obesity'; the mechanical and chemical interventions which enable temporary continuation of unhealthy lifestyles; geo-engineering; fracking etc etc.

[emordnilap]

The welfare state is unsustainable in a era without growth

The welfare state as it exists today. We know this on this board better than most.

There are better existing models for social support, though even those require serious energy inputs. A cross between the Scandinavian and the Cuban models perhaps? Remember, support for the less able is 101% essential, whether you personally like it or not.

I suspect that these assertionswon't fit the mentality among some here though. Critical thinking, but only to a certain extent eh?!

Names and links, please.

[kenneal - lagger]

We were talking about this at an AECB, The Sustainable Building Association, meeting last night and a cost of £18 billion per year over 40 years for the National Insulation scheme was mentioned. A total of £750 billion. That's peanuts compared with what has been put into the banks in one year and still not solved their problem or got the economy going.

[RenewableCandy]

Meanwhile the Green Deal omnirumbles shambles on... http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... green-deal

Cavity wall insulations crash by 97% following green deal introduction

Figures show that only 1,138 installations were completed in April this year, down from 49,650 in April 2012

[RenewableCandy]

More Green Deal.

[kenneal - lagger]

I sent this letter to my MP. Perhaps others might use it as a template for theirs especially if they're in government.

Dear ....

You might not be aware of this but I am sure the relevant Ministers do know.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... green-deal

Going from a one phone call, cheap installation to all the rigmarole and cost of the Green Deal was a dead cert to cause this type of catastrophe for the industry and the nation. The cost of the Green Deal survey is more than it cost to get the work done previously. How much unemployment is this causing, I wonder?

Not your personal problem, I know, but one for the government.

A National Insulation Scheme would cost not more than £18 billion per year, on average, for the forty years until 2050 and could deliver an 80% saving on personal fuel bills and a 32% saving on the nation's fuel import bill at a time of rapidly rising costs together with hundreds of thousands of new green jobs and the eradication of fuel poverty early on in the process (just do Housing Assocition houses first). If this was paid for by printing the money rather than borrowing it would have a massive positive effect on the economy. The government printing a similar amount of money and putting it in the banks has caused a bubble in the stock market and no effect on the outside economy. Great for pensioners until the inevitable crash comes.

Regards

[Lord Beria3]

Some kind of welfare system is essential and of course we have had poor provision since the era of Cromwell (Henry the 8th) - there was a good BBC2 documentary this week which covered the introduction of the poor laws.

Now, lets be frank here, expectations have moved on since the Victorian era Poor Laws and obviously it is both economically and socially sensible to provide a level of support for everybody in society (even the so-called 'undeserving' e.g. those who don't want to work).

Beyond that though, I suspect economic forces will gradually end the comprehensive nature of welfare (for example the multi-billion housing benefit, child benefit etc) in the coming decades. Welfare, like everything else, will gradually go back to basics - dole money for the unemployed, some kind of food stamp system for the very poor and financial support for the seriously ill/handicapped and a basic state pension for everybody.

[Lord Beria3]

http://www.economist.com/news/britain/2 ... iberal-any

“Every successive generation is less collectivist than the last,” says Ben Page of Ipsos MORI, a pollster. All age groups are becoming more socially and economically liberal. But the young are ahead of the general trend. They have a more sceptical view of state transfers, even allowing for the general shift in attitudes (see first chart).

Polling by YouGov shows that those aged 18 to 24 are also more likely than older people to consider social problems the responsibility of individuals rather than government. They are deficit hawks (see second chart). They care about the environment, but are also keen on commerce: more supportive of the privatisation of utilities, more likely to reject government attempts to ban branding on cigarette packets and more likely to agree that Tesco, Britain’s supermarket giant, “has only become so large by offering customers what they want”.

The good news is that young people, brought up in the world of Shameless and the failure of a bankrupt welfare system understand that we need to get back to the originial principles of welfare when it was founded a basic social safety net for everybody and a helping out for those who wanted to improve their lot... not a system to live of the state for your entire life.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

The good news is that young people, brought up in the world of Shameless and the failure of a bankrupt welfare system understand that we need to get back to the originial principles of welfare when it was founded a basic social safety net for everybody and a helping out for those who wanted to improve their lot... not a system to live of the state for your entire life.

If you mean that young people have worked out that the state benefits system is rigged against them then you might just be right.

[nexus]

LB3 :

not a system to live of the state for your entire life.

How do you live "OF" the state Beria?

[RenewableCandy]

More to the point, with jobs (and the energy behind them, and, frankly, the need to do quite so much pointless work!) getting scarcer, there are statitically bound to be some people who, for economic reasons, never get into formal, paid work. How are they different from those who work intermittently? Are they any less deserving? When they spend their money, does it not find its way back into the economy just like anyone else's??

[emordnilap]

A sensible list from Kunstler:

First item on the list: restructure the banks. Other items: reinstate the Glass-Steagall Act; disassemble the ridiculous “security” edifice under the NSA; upgrade the US electric grid; close down most of our military bases overseas (and some of our bases in the USA); draw up a constitutional amendment re-defining the alleged “personhood” of corporations; fix the passenger railroad system to prepare for the end of Happy Motoring; rebuild Main Street commerce to prepare for the death of WalMart and things like it; outlaw GMO foods and promote local food production; shut down WE ARE DODGY gambling.

And I thought I was an optimist.

He asks his readers for their lists but, as usual, the comments section is worse than bedlam.

[fifthcolumn]

More to the point, with jobs (and the energy behind them, and, frankly, the need to do quite so much pointless work!) getting scarcer, there are statitically bound to be some people who, for economic reasons, never get into formal, paid work. How are they different from those who work intermittently? Are they any less deserving? When they spend their money, does it not find its way back into the economy just like anyone else's??

Yes. If we manage to get out of the next decade without a huge bunfight to screw things up for everyone then this will definitely be the next big challenge as the value of human labour plummets.