Grantham: ‘Entering A Long-Term & Dangerous Food Crisis

[DominicJ]

One would also imagine that if the market fails to deliver (e.g. food available but the people are too poor to eat) that the market structures of food distribution will be replaced to by the State.

And when has the state been a more capable food distributor.....

Its all well and good to say the state will take over, but it cant magic food into existence.

If it "appropriates" imported food, then the importers go bankrupt and the neighbors demand cash up front.
If it appropriates from farms, farmers are unable to buy seed corn, fertiliser and diesel.

Either way, theres quickly no food at all, rich or poor.

******
There has been a 51% increase in french citizens looking for work in London.

[Lord Beria3]

Dom - this is not a arguement that the State is better than the market.

Just that when a significant section of the public can't afford to eat, it becomes a social/revolutionary threat, and a State has to intervene one way or anather in the market of food allocation.

[DominicJ]

LB
Not saying they wont try, merely pointing out the likely outcome, the rich run, the poor die

[kenneal - lagger]

And when has the state been a more capable food distributor.....

During World War 2

Its all well and good to say the state will take over, but it cant magic food into existence.

No, but it can direct food production in a more efficient way, such as limiting the amount of meat eaten so that more grain and vegetables are available for human consumption.

The rationing system worked very well during WW2 and the UK population was probably the most healthy it has ever been.

The market fails when confronted by extreme shortages and rationing then becomes the only equitable way of distribution is you put any value on human life. The market does not put a value on human life so the short commodity goes to those who can pay, the richest, *ankers in our case, with no mechanism to feed the poor.

We will soon see how the market distributes oil in time of shortage and there is highly unlikely to be worldwide rationing then. We can see what will happen in you look at how China is going round the world buying up resource sources for its own use. We will either have to do without or fight for what we "need".

I favour doing without and living in peace at a much lower wealth level. The alternative is living at a much much lower wealth level in the long term because of the depletion and destruction of resources in the fight for them.

[ceti331]

And when has the state been a more capable food distributor.....

The rationing system worked very well during WW2 and the UK population was probably the most healthy it has ever been.

One thing that bugs me is how will rationing and attempts at self-sufficiency interact.
What happens if someone is 'self sufficient' to the extent they can exceed rations.. perhaps thats just very unlikely

[Little John]

And when has the state been a more capable food distributor.....

The rationing system worked very well during WW2 and the UK population was probably the most healthy it has ever been.

One thing that bugs me is how will rationing and attempts at self-sufficiency interact.
What happens if someone is 'self sufficient' to the extent they can exceed rations.. perhaps thats just very unlikely

I think in WW2, people were allowed to supplement their rations which whatever they could grow for themselves. I bet farmers never went hungry.

[ceti331]

The rationing system worked very well during WW2 and the UK population was probably the most healthy it has ever been.

One thing that bugs me is how will rationing and attempts at self-sufficiency interact.
What happens if someone is 'self sufficient' to the extent they can exceed rations.. perhaps thats just very unlikely

I think in WW2, people were allowed to supplement their rations which whatever they could grow for themselves. I bet farmers never went hungry.

so what if rich people buy up land.. "self-sufficient" to the extent of having their own pockets of industrial agriculture.
will that get "rationed" ..

will there be regulations preventing people from growing biofuel

[Little John]

One thing that bugs me is how will rationing and attempts at self-sufficiency interact.
What happens if someone is 'self sufficient' to the extent they can exceed rations.. perhaps thats just very unlikely

I think in WW2, people were allowed to supplement their rations which whatever they could grow for themselves. I bet farmers never went hungry.

so what if rich people buy up land.. "self-sufficient" to the extent of having their own pockets of industrial agriculture.
will that get "rationed" ..

Will there be regulations preventing people from growing biofuel

If rich people buy up land and use it to grow biofuels to sell to the rich or to sell to overseas customers whilst, at the same time, the majority of the people are starving, do really you need me to draw you a picture of what will happen?

People don't, in the end, care about democracy. People don't in the end, care about liberty. More's the pity. People, in the end, only care about the food in their belies and those of their families. Take that away and they have absolutely nothing to lose.

[Tarrel]

I think in WW2, people were allowed to supplement their rations which whatever they could grow for themselves. I bet farmers never went hungry.

I had an interesting conversation with my Mother recently. She's 84, so would have been in her early teens during WW2. They lived in a rented house with some land and a small orchard, near Harefield, Middlesex. She told me how my Grandmother could see what was coming, and built up massive stocks of tinned and dried foods in their cupboards. They also had chickens, my Grandfather grew vegetables, and they had apples from the orchard. All this they were allowed to use in addition to their rations. I imagine they traded some too.

[PS_RalphW]

I was watching th WWII recreated farm series on BBC2 last night. All good stuff. People in the countryside did a lot better than townies. The sheer amount of voluntary or low wage labour that went into food production was salitary to watch.

[kenneal - lagger]

I, too, have been watching the WW2 Farm series. Everything that left the farm was purchased by the Ministry of Food so prices were controlled as was what was grown. Yes, country dwellers did well if they grew some food but so could townies. Parks and open space were all turned over to allotments for those who wanted them. Even the moat of the Tower of London was cultivated!

[kenneal - lagger]

...............I bet farmers never went hungry.

But they worked very hard and long hours as they still do now. Farming isn't an easy life. You should try it some time.

[Little John]

...............I bet farmers never went hungry.

But they worked very hard and long hours as they still do now. Farming isn't an easy life. You should try it some time.

I am well aware of how hard they work. I was born on a farm and worked through my childhood and teenage years on moor farms in a place called Danby Dale in the Esk Valley in the Yorkshire Dales. Don't be so defensive or, indeed, narrow mindedly judgemental about the experience of others when you are in no position to make such a judgement.

I have also seen how hard many urban people work. Their work is no less arduous, it's just different and, in many ways, a damned site more alienating and soul destroying.

[Tarrel]

But they worked very hard and long hours as they still do now. Farming isn't an easy life. You should try it some time.

Probably better than being shot at though.