I fear the red beast... yup communism

Standuble · Post by **Standuble** » 23 Jan 2012, 10:42

I really can't stand this argument. Claiming the communists killed more than the Nazis to discredit it is very misleading. Nazism existed in one country for twelve years whilst Communism has existed in a wide number of countries and its almost been a hundred years since it was first implemented. You can't compare the two fairly as its logical the figure would be higher when its on a much larger scale.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 23 Jan 2012, 13:30

I think you could find a 12 year period of communism that beats the number of claimed killed by the Nazis I would think 12 years of the Stalinist terror might 12 years of Mao would

fascism existed in a couple of country's, quite a lots of country's have been racist or nationalist, a lot have been anti semitic including middle ages UK which expelled or killed all Jews who would not convert to Christianity .

so there are country's similar not with the same branding I suppose tho

Ludwig · Post by **Ludwig** » 23 Jan 2012, 13:30

Standuble wrote:I really can't stand this argument. Claiming the communists killed more than the Nazis to discredit it is very misleading. Nazism existed in one country for twelve years whilst Communism has existed in a wide number of countries and its almost been a hundred years since it was first implemented. You can't compare the two fairly as its logical the figure would be higher when its on a much larger scale.

All ideologies are just means to an end for pragmatic tyrants.

You could argue that right-wing ideologies appeal to nationalism while left-wing ones appeal to internationalism, but it's not as clear-cut as that. The Soviet Union was nominally internationalist, but in practice was a vehicle for Russian nationalism.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 23 Jan 2012, 13:39

I don't know about that , if you have a world view where you dislike kulak's aren't you going to target kulak's , or if its Jew's wont you target Jew's .

I'd have felt happier as some blond haired Nordic in Nazi Germany than a Jew , and in communism I'd feel happier as a bin man , that isn't to say that you were safe as either but I would have felt safer

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 23 Jan 2012, 20:23

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_ ... ial_domain

In 1940, the general staff of the German Navy produced a much more detailed plan accompanied by a map showing a proposed German colonial empire delineated in blue (the traditional color used in German cartography to indicate the German sphere of influence as opposed to the red or pink that represented the British Empire) in sub-Saharan Africa, extending from the Atlantic Ocean to the Indian Ocean.[28] The proposed domain was supposed to fulfill the long-sought territorial German goal of Mittelafrika, and even further beyond. It was to provide a base from which Germany was to achieve a pre-eminent position on the African continent just as the conquest of Eastern Europe was to achieve a similar status over the continent of Europe.

In contrast to territories that were to be acquired in Europe itself (specifically European Russia), these areas were however not envisaged as targets for extensive German population settlement. The establishment of a vast colonial empire was to serve primarily economic purposes, for it would provide Germany with most natural resources that it would not be able to find in its continental possessions, as well as an additional nearly unlimited supply of labor. Racialist policies would nevertheless be strictly enforced on all inhabitants (meaning segregation of whites and blacks and punishing of interracial relationships) to maintain "Aryan" purity.

The area included all pre-WWI German colonial territories in Africa, as well as additional parts of the French, Belgian and British colonial holdings in Africa. These were the French and Belgian Congo, Northern and Southern Rhodesia (the latter going perhaps to South Africa), Nyasaland, southern Kenya with Nairobi (northern Kenya was to be given to Italy), Uganda, Gabon, Ubangui-Chari, Nigeria, Dahomey, the Gold Coast, Zanzibar, nearly all of Niger and Chad, as well as the naval bases of Dakar and Bathurst.[29]

A second part of the plan entailed the construction of a huge string of fortified naval and air bases for future operations against the Western hemisphere spanning much of the Atlantic coastline of Europe and Africa from Trondheim in Norway all the way up to the Belgian Congo, as well as many off-lying islands such as Cape Verde and the Azores. A less extensive but similar initiative was intended for the east coast of Africa.

There you go old chap, not disinformation at all regarding Nazi plans for Africa.

mobbsey · Post by **mobbsey** » 23 Jan 2012, 22:19

Marx was an economist...
Adam Smith was an economist...
Keynes was an economist...
Friedman was an economist...
Greenspan is an economist...
Bernanke is an economist...
Stiglitz is an economist...

...do you notice a pattern here?

And on the basis of how economists perform today, why is Marx or Friedman any more correct than thee or me?

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 24 Jan 2012, 12:33

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_propaganda

During world war two we had a branch of intelligence that specialized in making false documents and setting up radio stations that pretended to be German, all sides did that sort of thing in the war we and the soviets were especially good at it.

m16 even in the 1990s were caught making up false documents, handing them to assets in the media to discredit people colonel Qaddafi son etc etc how many times have they not been caught.

I would think it would be quite sensible to fake documents to discredit your former enemies, especially when your running a extensive de- nazification programme and you don't want a fourth Reich to arise .

I'm not saying these documents are fake, but I think it would be very easy especially at the end of the war to fake just about anything especially Nazi documents .

Maybe I'm cynical but Ive dealt in antiques mainly books ( and militaria at one time) since I was a boy and seen a lot of fakes including fake German documents and weapons, there is a whole industry producing really good fake German stuff some of it so good it even catches people in the trade.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 24 Jan 2012, 16:32

Yes, anyone remember the Times "Hitler Diaries" kerfuffle a few years back?

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 24 Jan 2012, 22:05

good example

As well as documents I wouldn't trust statements coming out of former nazis you could get them to say pretty much anything, lots of them worked for us or the soviets post war, we used torture on some of them and there was always the threat of war crimes trials .

What happened to Hitler we now know that the body that we thought was his, that proved his death, is that of a women.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 25 Jan 2012, 15:26

Perhaps hitler was a woman

? (tries not to think about maggie t at this point...)

Lord Beria3 · Post by **Lord Beria3** » 25 Jan 2012, 18:17

jonny2mad wrote:good example

As well as documents I wouldn't trust statements coming out of former nazis you could get them to say pretty much anything, lots of them worked for us or the soviets post war, we used torture on some of them and there was always the threat of war crimes trials .

What happened to Hitler we now know that the body that we thought was his, that proved his death, is that of a women.

Could you elaborate on that?

I've always thought that there is no substantive evidence to back the theories that Hitler had escaped Berlin in 1945, do you think that there is a decent case otherwise?

if so, do you have any reputable books to suggest on the subject?

mobbsey · Post by **mobbsey** » 25 Jan 2012, 18:44

Lord Beria3 wrote:I've always thought that there is no substantive evidence to back the theories that Hitler had escaped Berlin in 1945

To what end?

If he did escape, he's dead now (otherwise he's at least 120 years old); and even so, escaping's had no obvious effect on the world in any case.

The question is absurd because it's outcome is meaningless in the sense of events since. To quote the Great Sage Python...

Yeah, I've had a team working on this over the past few weeks, and what we've come up with can be reduced to two fundamental concepts. One: People aren't wearing enough hats. Two: Matter is energy. In the universe there are many energy fields which we cannot normally perceive. Some energies have a spiritual source which act upon a person's soul. However, this "soul" does not exist ab initio as orthodox Christianity teaches; it has to be brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation. However, this is rarely achieved owing to man's unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia.

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 25 Jan 2012, 18:47

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/se ... l-fragment

jonny2mad · Post by **jonny2mad** » 25 Jan 2012, 18:56

well we are unlikely to ever know the truth, I like the idea of antarctic bases and Nazi UFOs maybe using Die Glocke technology...and very blond ruthless people secretly controlling the world

mobbsey · Post by **mobbsey** » 25 Jan 2012, 19:03

jonny2mad wrote:...and very blond ruthless people secretly controlling the world

Yeah, that's what people tell themselves when their lives are undeniably crap, in order to sublimate the causes of their ineffectual lifestyle situation into the result of external paranoid conspiracies, and thus avoid admitting the reality that it's their own fault for going along with "the system".

I think it's no accident that the country with the most well developed corporate dictatorship, and with the best political system and per-per-view public scientists that money can buy (yes suiree, the good 'ole U.S of A), is also the state with the most well developed conspiracy theory culture.