I'm not so sure, a 3 bed semi in the South East buys a decent smallholding in Wales, or a really good one in Cork.emordnilap wrote:Way easier said than done, though, innit? 99% of the population are trapped, whether they know it or not.
A thread for lurkers...
Moderator: Peak Moderation
Fact is there aren't many people trying. I don't know why.JohnB wrote:Until everyone tries to do it. Wales doesn't have an infinite supply of smallholdings, and peak smallholding would soon be reached!Catweazle wrote:I'm not so sure, a 3 bed semi in the South East buys a decent smallholding in Wales, or a really good one in Cork.
-
biffvernon
- Posts: 18538
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Lincolnshire
- Contact:
You're probably right. Perhaps we need a government initiative to encourage people back to the land.biffvernon wrote:Because almost everyone believes that the world will just carry on as normal, and the few who don't, think there's nothing to be done except party for the now.Catweazle wrote: Fact is there aren't many people trying. I don't know why.
-
biffvernon
- Posts: 18538
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Lincolnshire
- Contact:
-
stumuzz
Just a few thoughts about smallholdings in wales.
There are many smallholdings in wales but the price varies a lot. The more remote and away from transport links/towns the cheaper they are. There is an obvious reason for this. Also if you are on a north side of a large hill affects the price.I know of a few with no services or internet! Smallholdings are suited to the welsh geography, as large agrifarms tend to be flat!
John Seymour once wrote that buying a cow was the most difficult thing in the world, choosing the right smallholding is not far behind.
Language will be another issue that should not be overlooked. Most very rural areas will be first language Welsh. The dialect will be different within 20 miles. The Welsh I speak is slightly different to the one spoken in Caernarfon. This results in quite a different culture. Most people I know will write a letter in English but speak in Welsh, so history, tales, warnings are generally spoken. This is probably why as children we did recitals in Eisteddfod.
This spoken culture has also developed a family dominated trust arrangement in everyday affairs. An example of this is people will always try to ‘place’ you. When you meet another person from 30 miles away, for the first five minutes they will tell stories of the area, people you know and more importantly how you are related to them. Once they have placed you, i.e. where you are from and whom you belong to, you can get on with your business.
This family dominated group is at the centre of most of the informal local economy (Most of the time money does not change hands). This is not a bad thing. In fact it is an older and closer form of transition town.
Employment is family dominated. The saying, it’s not what you know it’s who you know, is an axiom in North Wales.
Think long and hard before buying a smallholding in Wales. Unless you marry a natives daughter it could be a lonely few years!!
There are many smallholdings in wales but the price varies a lot. The more remote and away from transport links/towns the cheaper they are. There is an obvious reason for this. Also if you are on a north side of a large hill affects the price.I know of a few with no services or internet! Smallholdings are suited to the welsh geography, as large agrifarms tend to be flat!
John Seymour once wrote that buying a cow was the most difficult thing in the world, choosing the right smallholding is not far behind.
Language will be another issue that should not be overlooked. Most very rural areas will be first language Welsh. The dialect will be different within 20 miles. The Welsh I speak is slightly different to the one spoken in Caernarfon. This results in quite a different culture. Most people I know will write a letter in English but speak in Welsh, so history, tales, warnings are generally spoken. This is probably why as children we did recitals in Eisteddfod.
This spoken culture has also developed a family dominated trust arrangement in everyday affairs. An example of this is people will always try to ‘place’ you. When you meet another person from 30 miles away, for the first five minutes they will tell stories of the area, people you know and more importantly how you are related to them. Once they have placed you, i.e. where you are from and whom you belong to, you can get on with your business.
This family dominated group is at the centre of most of the informal local economy (Most of the time money does not change hands). This is not a bad thing. In fact it is an older and closer form of transition town.
Employment is family dominated. The saying, it’s not what you know it’s who you know, is an axiom in North Wales.
Think long and hard before buying a smallholding in Wales. Unless you marry a natives daughter it could be a lonely few years!!
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14815
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
Once the smallholdings are bought up, that leaves about 98%.Catweazle wrote:I'm not so sure, a 3 bed semi in the South East buys a decent smallholding in Wales, or a really good one in Cork.emordnilap wrote:Way easier said than done, though, innit? 99% of the population are trapped, whether they know it or not.
Irish farmland is one of the, if not the, most expensive in the world, slightly under $13K an acre in 2010; UK: $9K, just short of New Zealand's $9.3K. Irish figure from Irish Farmers Journal, others from here.
Now, where does that remind me of?stumuzz wrote:This spoken culture has also developed a family dominated trust arrangement in everyday affairs. An example of this is people will always try to ‘place’ you. When you meet another person from 30 miles away, for the first five minutes they will tell stories of the area, people you know and more importantly how you are related to them. Once they have placed you, i.e. where you are from and whom you belong to, you can get on with your business.
This family dominated group is at the centre of most of the informal local economy (Most of the time money does not change hands). This is not a bad thing. In fact it is an older and closer form of transition town.
Employment is family dominated. The saying, it’s not what you know it’s who you know, is an axiom in North Wales.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
-
stumuzz
Just after I posted this morning I was on my way to work when an elderly lady I have known all my life flagged me down. She said her airing cupboard was wet and she thought she had a leak.
In I went and after a few minutes of clearing the cupboard it was obvious that the leak was from a dodgy washer in the ballcock and the overflow pipe, which should have taken it away, was leaking.
I told her I would replace the washer and it would only take a few minutes.
It did not work. So I returned to my house and got my box of ballcocks, which I collect from skips in the recycle centre.
In the end I had to replace the ballcock and float in a cramped airing cupboard that you could hardly get to. It has taken me two and a half hours!
Now, when I had finished she offered to pay. I would not hear of it. She then offered copious amounts of wine that I had a feeling had been sitting on the sideboard for years. I said I prefer my own fruit wines nowadays and will be buying a metal shed to turn into a microbrewery when I find the time to make a wooden base.
Her hubby is making the base when I phone him with the measurements!!
Two jobs done, no money changes hands. I think this sort of thing will become the norm again.
In I went and after a few minutes of clearing the cupboard it was obvious that the leak was from a dodgy washer in the ballcock and the overflow pipe, which should have taken it away, was leaking.
I told her I would replace the washer and it would only take a few minutes.
It did not work. So I returned to my house and got my box of ballcocks, which I collect from skips in the recycle centre.
In the end I had to replace the ballcock and float in a cramped airing cupboard that you could hardly get to. It has taken me two and a half hours!
Now, when I had finished she offered to pay. I would not hear of it. She then offered copious amounts of wine that I had a feeling had been sitting on the sideboard for years. I said I prefer my own fruit wines nowadays and will be buying a metal shed to turn into a microbrewery when I find the time to make a wooden base.
Her hubby is making the base when I phone him with the measurements!!
Two jobs done, no money changes hands. I think this sort of thing will become the norm again.
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14815
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
Round here we do that sort of thing already but nowhere near enough. A handful of neighbours borrow equipment between them and help with odd jobs. Rarely does money come into it.
A recent bonus was the loan of some scaffolding for me fixing a gate and looking after a dog for a week. Both the gate fixing and the dog minding are a pleasure!
Another neighbour is minding our veggies while we're away in exchange for a share in the produce.
Yet a third neighbour is giving me half a dozen or so beautiful sandstone flags; I owe him a job as a result.
Another neighbour helped put in power to the polytunnel for no more than the materials cost, simply because he's a friend.
It's all good stuff.
A recent bonus was the loan of some scaffolding for me fixing a gate and looking after a dog for a week. Both the gate fixing and the dog minding are a pleasure!
Another neighbour is minding our veggies while we're away in exchange for a share in the produce.
Yet a third neighbour is giving me half a dozen or so beautiful sandstone flags; I owe him a job as a result.
Another neighbour helped put in power to the polytunnel for no more than the materials cost, simply because he's a friend.
It's all good stuff.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
That 98% might be trapped then, but the 99% aren't trapped now, they just can't motivate themselves to move. Blind optimism or fear paralysis ?emordnilap wrote:Once the smallholdings are bought up, that leaves about 98%.Catweazle wrote:I'm not so sure, a 3 bed semi in the South East buys a decent smallholding in Wales, or a really good one in Cork.emordnilap wrote:Way easier said than done, though, innit? 99% of the population are trapped, whether they know it or not.
All this talk about trading labour isn't putting me off, I want a future free of income tax, it will match my future free of a state pension.
-
emordnilap
- Posts: 14815
- Joined: 05 Sep 2007, 16:36
- Location: here
+1Catweazle wrote:All this talk about trading labour isn't putting me off, I want a future free of income tax, it will match my future free of a state pension.
I experience pleasure and pains, and pursue goals in service of them, so I cannot reasonably deny the right of other sentient agents to do the same - Steven Pinker
-
UndercoverElephant
- Posts: 13496
- Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 00:00
- Location: UK
Unless you have enough money to buy the smallholding, or a large deposit and a secure, well-paid job, then you are currently trapped. There's nothing I'd like more than to be living on a smallholding, but I'm afraid £80K just isn't enough. And I am in a much better position than most of the people I know...Catweazle wrote:That 98% might be trapped then, but the 99% aren't trapped now, they just can't motivate themselves to move. Blind optimism or fear paralysis ?emordnilap wrote:Once the smallholdings are bought up, that leaves about 98%.Catweazle wrote: I'm not so sure, a 3 bed semi in the South East buys a decent smallholding in Wales, or a really good one in Cork.
I think that was the cost of a smallholding at Lammas.UndercoverElephant wrote:There's nothing I'd like more than to be living on a smallholding, but I'm afraid £80K just isn't enough. And I am in a much better position than most of the people I know...