Ireland

[emordnilap]

Our government use it thus, reffering for example to the spending of £500,000 as "half a billion"

Look again.

[RenewableCandy]

For starters, a billion = a million millions or a 1 with 12 zeroes after it. (The cheapskate Yanks like to have only 11 zeroes for a billion)

Shurely 9 zeros? _ed

But I think it's a long time since anyone's referred to 10^12 as a Bilion: usually that's called a Trillion these days.

[Keela]

My understanding:

1 million = 1 000 000 6 zeros or 10 to power of 6

1 billion = 1 000 000 000 9 zeros or 10 to power of 9

1 trillion = 1 000 000 000 000 12 zeros or 10 to power of 12

I seem to recall some confusion over the use of the word billion a couple of decades ago and that there was at one point some difference between UK and USA billions. However I think the above is now common usage on both sides of the Atlantic...? Please correct me if I am wrong.

[emordnilap]

Right. Edited my post. Grrr. Very annoying, this squidgillion thing.

[emordnilap]

So, start again.

The IMF says Ireland's 'external debt' is:

$2,131,267,000,000

and the GDP is $227,781 billion, which, at a billion being a thousand million (grr), is:

$227,781,000,000,000

so I was right there - the debt is 1% of GDP. Still, Cabrone's $473,000 per capita is right.

I have €7,000 left to pay on my mortgage, so they'll have to wait for the other few thou.

But wait! That's dollars. I don't owe any dollars! We're saved!

[adam2]

Our government use it thus, reffering for example to the spending of £500,000 as "half a billion"

Look again.

Indeed, typo in my original post, which I have edited to reflect this.
£500,000 is of course half a MILLION
£500,000,000 is half a BILLION.

[Totally_Baffled]

so I was right there - the debt is 1% of GDP. Still, Cabrone's $473,000 per capita is right.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publication ... os/ei.html

Are you sure?

External Debt
$2.287 trillion (30 September 2009)
country comparison to the world: 7
$2.356 trillion (31 December 2008)

GDP (official exchange rate):
$227.8 billion (2009 est.)

External debt is 10 times GDP according to the world factbook

[emordnilap]

I'm just going by what was posted in Cabrone's links. Where am I going wrong with those figures?

[Cabrone]

So, start again.

The IMF says Ireland's 'external debt' is:

$2,131,267,000,000

and the GDP is $227,781 billion, which, at a billion being a thousand million (grr), is:

$227,781,000,000,000

so I was right there - the debt is 1% of GDP. Still, Cabrone's $473,000 per capita is right.

I have €7,000 left to pay on my mortgage, so they'll have to wait for the other few thou.

But wait! That's dollars. I don't owe any dollars! We're saved!

Hi emordnilap

Unfortunately according to Wiki, the GDP is $227.781 billion - not $227,781 billion (if Ireland's GDP was that much you'd be around 15 times bigger than the USA!)

That means the GDP in long hand is $227,781,000,000.

You are a factor of 1000 out I'm afraid and i does look like the external debt is currently approx 10 times the GDP.

I think that's right.

If I was an Irish banker I'd be keeping a very low profile for at least the next century (maybe even millenium).

These figures just my eyes just glaze over.....definately time for a cup of tea.

[emordnilap]

Ah! Thank you for that.

That's alright then...

Ireland owes the equivalent of roughly 4% of world GDP.

[Cabrone]

Ah! Thank you for that.

That's alright then...

Ireland owes the equivalent of roughly 4% of world GDP.

Is that right? That's completely mental!

Honestly, things have gotten to such an absurd level that you have to laugh..........else you'd go mad.

Anyway back to reality, back to my cuppa.

[emordnilap]

Ah! Thank you for that.

That's alright then...

Ireland owes the equivalent of roughly 4% of world GDP.

Is that right? That's completely mental!

Honestly, things have gotten to such an absurd level that you have to laugh..........else you'd go mad.

Anyway back to reality, back to my cuppa.

Mental is right. I have this figure in my head that world GDP is $50 trilllion.

And I don't care.

[biffvernon]

There is a bit of sense to a billion having nine zeros rather than twelve - the names go up by the same power.

thousand, million, billion, trillion, quadrillion, zillion.

[ujoni08]

I agree with this: it's simpler than the system Britain used until 1974, which was called the long system.

From Wikipedia:

'The long and short scales are two of several different large number naming systems used throughout the world for integer powers of ten (10).[1] Many countries, including most in continental Europe, use the long scale whereas most English-speaking countries use the short scale. In all such countries, the number names are translated into the local language, but retain a name similarity due to shared etymology.

Long scale is the English translation of the French term échelle longue. It refers to a system of large number names in which every new term greater than million is 1,000,000 times the previous term: billion means a million millions (10^12), trillion means a million billions (10^eighteen), and so on.

Short scale is the English translation of the French term échelle courte. It refers to a system of large number names in which every new term greater than million is 1,000 times the previous term: billion means a thousand millions (10^9), trillion means a thousand billions (10^12), and so on.

Up to, but excluding, a thousand million (< 109), the two scales are identical. At and above a thousand million (&#8805; 109), the two scales diverge by using the same words for different number values. These false friends[2] can be a source of misunderstanding.

For most of the 19th and 20th centuries, the United Kingdom uniformly used the long scale,[3] while the United States of America used the short scale,[3] so that usage of the two systems was often referred to as British and American respectively. In 1974, the government of the UK switched to the short scale, a change that is reflected in its mass media and official usage.[4][5][6][7] Although some residual usage of the long scale continues in the UK,[8] the phrases British usage and American usage are no longer accurate nor helpful characterisations.'

European languages do have a name for 10 to the power 9. They call it a milliard (a term we apparently used long ago in English too).

I wonder where, in terms of digital compatibility and say, international talks about e.g. debt and aid, this terminological asymmetry will lead, with English-speaking countries using the short scale, and the rest (?) using the long scale. After TEOTWAWKI it won't matter, I guess...

Jon

[Tawney]

This story caught my eye:

Earlier on Thursday, yields on Irish 10-year bonds reached a new high of 7.69%. The move reflected increasing scepticism about the Republic's ability to tackle its problems without outside help.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11693654

It's hard to find anywhere to put your savings that gets more than the inflation rate, yet here is a sovereign country's bond offering 7.69%.

This bit isn't pleasant reading either.

The Irish government has outlined when it will make 15bn euros (£13.1bn; $21.3bn) of budget cuts designed to reduce the country's deficit ... The Irish deficit is predicted to be the equivalent of 32% of the country's economic output this year.

It’s either bravery or madness. Somehow I don’t think the bankers will be any more popular in Ireland than they are in the UK or Iceland.