Post Peak Israel

smiffy · Post by **smiffy** » 03 Jan 2006, 14:45

I have tried on several occasions to advise Israeli jews that things will be awful over there, but they dismiss it with: God will protect the Jews??? WTF?

Firstly, demographically the country is very over crowded and birth rtaes continue to increse at dramatic rates on both sides of the faiths.

They also have severe water problems and there is no way that they will have enough water for agriculture or to drink in a post carbon world if population density continues it's upward climb.

Secondly, when the shtf Israel will fall right off the radar screen in America since America will have its own major problems.

Thirdly, you have a nuclear reactor in demona, god help us if someone who wants to do any harm gets there hands on that and Israels 200+ Nuclear missiles, so in my opinion, you have a major recipe for disaster in Israel, global disaster.

The zionist movment and the errettz Israel crowd didnt see PO coming and when it hits that land there will be all out wholsale revenege on behalf of millions of disgruntaled Arabs.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 03 Jan 2006, 17:56

I can see the whole thing collapsing and a new country stretching from the Med to the Jordan taking its place, one-person-one-vote, a la South Africa.

Many Israelis and Palestinians see the one-state solution as the only solution:-

http://www.secretpower.zen.co.uk/pncc/o ... kening.htm
http://www.one-democratic-state.org/

Bandidoz · Post by **Bandidoz** » 03 Jan 2006, 18:11

newmac wrote:I plan to visit the West Bank for my next holiday in order to try and sort the news rubbish from the truth.

I didn't know you were into extreme sports!

Post by **clv101** » 03 Jan 2006, 19:02

smiffy wrote:That would be a bit stupid, since Israel is only about 7 miles wide from green line to med coast, they would be nukeing themselves...............

Drop a nuke on gaza and Tel Aviv is a goner, Drop a nuke on any west bank village and Jerusalem is also not inhabitable for about 200 years.

Just to add that not all nukes are 20MT, a small nuke might only destroy a few hundred meters and as for inhabitable for about 200 years I believe Hiroshima and Nagasaki have been continually highly populated since 1945. I think people on the whole overestimate the damage from nuclear weapons, such hundreds or thousands of multi MT weapons might produce the Hollywood nuclear winter but the very low number of small weapons that is far more likely to be used won't be the end of the world. Remember in the last 50 or so years we've seen some 2000 nuclear explosions on earth.

Karl · Post by **Karl** » 05 Jan 2006, 17:18

newmac wrote:I've often argued that Israel needs to go over the top to placate the surrounding countries and the Palestinians as soon as possible - i.e. now. This is a necessity whether you think they have a moral obligation to do this or not. It is also a necessity that they go further than what is considered the minimum, they need to go ott.

The reason being that the American public will soon pull the plug on what is essentially a state purely viable because of US subsidies when the big squeeze on their economy bites.

For the sake of the Israelis, the Palestinians, the surrounding countries and the I dare say the rest of the world.

I think they will survive a while because they have their own pockets left to open, it's a another matter with the american public. Yes, Israel should celebrate diversity it would be great for the jewish people.

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 29 Apr 2006, 15:55

As promised, I'm now in Jerusalem. I'll keep Israel and Palestine post peak in my mind as I travel around the West Bank.

dudley · Post by **dudley** » 03 May 2006, 12:56

newmac wrote:As promised, I'm now in Jerusalem. I'll keep Israel and Palestine post peak in my mind as I travel around the West Bank.

Have a good time. Here are some impressions from my trip. The flat part of Haifa near the sea, which is mostly Arab, looks a lot more sustainable than the rugged part inland, which is mostly Jewish. There is a lot of agriculture around Tel Aviv which probably uses aquifers. Tel Aviv itself is highly built up. Jerusalem is in a dessert and people get around by car there. Maybe it will shrink to the old city, a couple square kilometres, post peak. The bedouin camps on the way from Jerusalem to the Dead Sea look poor, but I guess they will not be much affected by PO. When I visited Massada, in the Judean dessert, I couldn't help but wonder how long into the 21st century the cable car ride to the top and tourist area there will continue running.

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 10 May 2006, 15:57

On Peak Oil:
The Jewish proportion of the Israeli population in Jerusalem and the West Bank is far more dependent on cars than the arab population. They live a much more suburban style life. The arab population is essentially still an agrarian and cottage industry society - great little shops for fixing virtually anything all over the place.

Arab population seems to have stronger community roots, probably partly because of persecution, poverty, more social/less suburban society and in some cases many generations of living in the same place.

Jewish population seemed less self sufficient, dependent on outside food, cheap Palestinian or far east labour.

Obvious ones are that the Jewish areas of Jerusalem and the illegal settlements are mare more energy and water intensive than the arab obodes. This is well recorded fact.

Aside:
On my overall view of the situation in the West Bank - the Israeli government is imposing a racist aparteid state on the arabs, no exaggeration. The wall is aimed more are destroying any hope the arabs have rather than act as a security resource. Any overtures of peace and a convenient screen they raise so that complicit governments around the world can continue doing nothing. The UK and EU are despicable in their lack of condemnation of this social brutality and their overwhelming support ofIsrael

The settlers seem to show a total disregard for the welfare of the Palestinians, which betrays an arrogant and racist mentallity. Some of them carry around so much hate.

There are a number of very brave Israelis (mainly in their 20s) who are active in trying to help the Palestinians, often getting a kicking for their troubles from the settlers and/or police.

Rant over...

XENG · Post by **XENG** » 10 May 2006, 16:04

It has often occured to me that what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians has a lot in common with what the Nazis did to the Jews, which is more than slightly ironic.
However there is a saying that the bullied end up becoming the bullies, i just hope they can break the cycle of violence.

newmac · Post by **newmac** » 11 May 2006, 10:39

Artificial Peak coming to the Palestinians sooner rather than later...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4758471.stm

ToY · Post by **ToY** » 11 May 2006, 16:59

A dress rehearsal for Israel:

Oil Refineries warns of fuel shortage by Sunday
The shortage will be caused by the suspending of the supply of crude oil to Oil Refineries Haifa.

Here is the link: http://www.globes.co.il/serveen/globes/ ... 3&fid=1725

ToY · Post by **ToY** » 11 May 2006, 17:05

newmac wrote:Artificial Peak coming to the Palestinians sooner rather than later...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4758471.stm

I think they have come to an agreement:

Israeli firm to resume fuel supply to Palestinians

Article here:

http://ca.today.reuters.com/news/newsAr ... NS-COL.XML