Too many people = Too many problems

[gug]

If HIV spread like the flu, we wouldnt stand a chance.

I was reading about how HIV works & evolves etc the other day.

It's a NASTY piece of work.

To be frank, having read about it and thinking about the risks associated with a mutation into a REALLY unpleasant form, I would now support manadatory testing for HIV and isolation of all sufferers.

Drastic - but maybe the wisest option.

Who fancies a nice conspiracy on this slightly shitey tuesday ?

Here we go, hang onto your hats...

Cure for HIV was discovered in the very late 80's.

before you groan, and say, yep, its cured by magic crystals and moonbeams, first have a look at this US patent granted in 1990 to Drs Kaali and Schwolsky of the Albert Einstein College of Medicine

http://www.google.com/patents?id=k1YdAA ... %235188738

Then watch this..

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 0805958061


You might still be sceptical (i'm not endorsing any of this, just forwarding the information) but i bet you're now (assuming you've watched and read the above) having second thoughts.

(im not entirely convinced on colloidal silver, but thats a small part of video not entirley related to the reason i posted this)

Edited to add: The guy in the video is (dr) Bob Beck (not medical, physics) who holds patents on a number of medical (and non medical) devices.

Before anyone starts to argue with me on this, take it up with Bob Beck, not me

[DominicJ]

Falls down on the "Is America everything" test.

China has a serious aids problem, why wouldnt they develop this cure?
Or Russia?

[gug]

Falls down on the "Is America everything" test.

China has a serious aids problem, why wouldnt they develop this cure?
Or Russia?

Take it up with Bob Beck. Doesn't bother me if anyone believes this or not.
I havent said whether i believe it.

But whilst you mention it, Russia has had phage medicine since the first world war.

So you tell me, why our doctors have , at points, been knows to pour bleach into wounds in a desperate attempt to kill vancomicin(sp) resistant bacteria.


but like i said, I'm not interested in arguing about Dr Bob.

And given that you replied in about 3 minutes, just proves that you'll attack something before you've even looked into it.

So, Your argument immediately falls down on the "couldn't be bothered to look into it before commenting" test.

[caspian]

Aye, it's Ted Hughes point again isn't it.... 'They f*ck you up your Mum and Dad, they don't mean to but they do, they give you all the problems that they had and add some more just for you.... Man hands on misery to man, it deepens like a coastal shelf, get out as quickly as you can, and don't have any kids yourself!'

Just a little correction here - it was actually Phillip Larkin in his poem This Be The Verse:

They f*ck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were f***ed up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.

(Bowdlerisation courtesy of phpBB's primness, although oddly not on the word "f***ed")

[MisterE]

I'll go for small families, no kids, state sterilisation, kill every child after the first born, kill all people over the age of 65, if your ill or a burden on the country then kill them, handicapped kill those, metally ill kill those etc etc etc - but providing it applies to all those in power first and those that advocate such idiotic ideas - suddenly it wont be so popular.

Until we can get into space and populate there, I'll stick with the old tried and trusted method that has worked since the dawn of man. Strive for a better life, then live a great reasonably free life, build an empire, go to war with other empires, start process over again.

Great post misterE.

I could not imagine living in a world were I was alone; the family is the reason I get out of bed in the morning. They are the reason I’m pretty much PO prepared. Reading your posts in the past it seems you have pragmatically just got on with your PO preps. Question is, is it a Welsh thing or a family thing!

I know what you mean I feel the same way, my family is everything to me, and I have just got on with preparing I dont understand for the life of me why people are doomerish. What changed? I can not remember a time from birth where I or other valley people around me did not feel that it was us against nature. I know the lovies like to say ah thats working with nature, which is true but the reality is nature will take your life as good as look at you. So for me I always made choices based on that fact.

To me nature can be anything because in essence all it is, is surviving in an enviroment you live in at any particular given time. Be it in the country, under the sea, in the city, in the past, in the future etc. All you need to do is have as much fun as possible whilst at the same time always preparing for the rainy day. Energy came along and sort of changed all that. To me living with nature in your heart is not frighting. Todays nature is like a ship that has docked and let us all have some shore leave (ie energy) how can you be in shock when she toots the horn to all get back on board? Did people really think we could stay forever and not journey onward, be it rough or calm seas?

I do think wales has a very different mindset - yes we got sheeeeple (lol Baa baa baa) but on the whole people came from a background of having nothing. There has always been massive community spirit in Wales becasue we dont have the sprawl of houses due to the mountains. Wales is working class, and always has placed had strong roots in family values. So I think it does help to be Welsh. But then again I think most people who grew up through the late 70's and 80's tend to feel the same, we all remember times with nothing, playing in the street, strong family (even if you got a slipper in the face now and then), community and more survival training than the sas ie gang brick fights, raiding the local mine, building dens, eating berries n ground nuts, damning up rivers, fishing, death slides n tree swings, firse, camping, getting chased, gobbing off in school n the caine, missing meals, insane long bike rides, summers, radio, different towns - the list is endless - somehow I think people born in the 80's got robbed - no wonder they cant do the squirrel and nuts thing, they were never taught the meaning of surviving your surroundings

[trimnut2]

We need a buffer between a sustainable human population and the actual population. My suggestion is one hundred to one hundred and fifty years buffer period. Hence a sustainable earth population for humans perhaps should be set at 1850/1900 levels. 1.2/1.6 billion.

Quiet an issue. Need a big turnaround. Reminds me just what limitations we humans are born with. Reminds me that we are a force of nature. Reminds me that perhaps we do not possess the capacities to manage ourselves. In the same way that no other natural or man make system has ever been able to fully manage itself. In the same way that we will be incapable of fully understanding our brain.

Still seeking a polite way to reduce our population by 82%.

[DominicJ]

Hence a sustainable earth population for humans perhaps should be set at 1850/1900 levels.

I'm pretty sure the UK had hit peak wood before that point

[2 As and a B]

Why bring genocide into it?

It was an outlandish comment meant to make people realise that hoping for a flu pandemic to cure our "overpopulation" "problem" is, well, tantamount to genocide.

Firstly, why do you never include the moniker of the person you are quoting? It is very easy to do - just hit the quote button on the post you are responding to - and it is very confusing to read your posts when one doesn't know who you are responding to.

Who said anything about hoping for a flu pandemic?

In any case, flu, because of its intermittent, transient nature, would not cause a permanent reduction of population levels. An endemic disease such as HIV/AIDS that becomes part of the human environment would, however.

Changes in environment - what we call "loss of habitat" for the animals we drive to extinction - is the long-term governor of changes in population levels: the access to water, the amount of food that can be grown or brought in and inherent diseases.

[DominicJ]

Firstly, why do you never include the moniker of the person you are quoting? It is very easy to do - just hit the quote button on the post you are responding to - and it is very confusing to read your posts when one doesn't know who you are responding to.

Didnt know you could, my html doesnt go beyond poor, I thought I was being cool using the quote button.

Who said anything about hoping for a flu pandemic?

The editorial in the reporter link, if not directly, certainly gave me the impression that he's one of the strange people who calls himself a lefty, than wants a virulant disease to slaughter 5 billion people, for the greater good of course

In any case, flu, because of its intermittent, transient nature, would not cause a permanent reduction of population levels. An endemic disease such as HIV/AIDS that becomes part of the human environment would, however.

Depends how many die if it brought the popuation level down to 1billion, at three children per couple it would take about 100 years to get the population back up to 6.5million

Changes in environment - what we call "loss of habitat" for the animals we drive to extinction - is the long-term governor of changes in population levels: the access to water, the amount of food that can be grown or brought in and inherent diseases.

I reckon a serious flu could do that, just in lost knowledge.[/quote]

[trimnut2]

Hence a sustainable earth population for humans perhaps should be set at 1850/1900 levels.

I'm pretty sure the UK had hit peak wood before that point

Good point and related I am sure that there were areas in Asia which also had reached "peak rice". However worldwide I gain the impression that things weren't so stressed. Granted that humans are not be able to manage the environmental system our population should be at such a level that the life system we rely on cannot be threatened by our activities. A tough ask.

[2 As and a B]

Who said anything about hoping for a flu pandemic?

The editorial in the reporter link, if not directly, certainly gave me the impression that he's one of the strange people who calls himself a lefty, than wants a virulant disease to slaughter 5 billion people, for the greater good of course

Ah, so it was only you who said it.

Where does he call himself a lefty?

[DominicJ]

I think you should read the thread again and then come back with any questions you have

[2 As and a B]

No, I don't understand what you are on about.

[DominicJ]

There was an article linked, which gave me the impression that the author, whilst buying fair trade coffee and free trade cocaine, was secretly hoping a super plague was going to come and kill all those people (in far away places) who were having more children then their patch of land could support.

There seems to be a growing view that man is bad and needs to be stopped, wether thats the financial disaster destroying our polluting industry (which it wont, coal has just become acceptable) or a plague exterminating humanity, other humans of course.

I was pointing out that hoping for a flu pandemic to exterminate half of humanity is a bit, sick.

[2 As and a B]

You have a fertile imagination Dominic.

About William B. Dickinson and the Biocentric Institute: http://www.iapm.org/biocentric.htm


William B. Dickinson