How did you find out about PO?

Pippa · Post by **Pippa** » 14 Aug 2007, 10:23

Ditto Andy with the unexpected pleasures.

We used to have an evergreen clematis on this wall. So now the clematis has had a massive hair cut and we have peaches!!!! The tree cost ?12.95 so expensive peaches (looks like I'll get 6 this year if wasps and birds don't get them first).

However, I have got alot of pleasure from this little tree (even if it isn't going to save me or the world).

We have also got two apple trees to go on the wall on the opposite side of our yard. We haven't planted them yet as husband and I don't agree where they should go. I want to plant them facing west (so actually not in our yard - on the parish ground on the other side of our wall). Husband argues that other people might steal the fruit whilst I think that it's unlikely to fruit so well facing East as the blossoms will be affected by frost thawing from morning sun in the spring.

So, for the time being, the apple trees are sitting in pots waiting for us to stop arguing.

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 14 Aug 2007, 11:03

Cor blimey nice peaches Pippa! They look juicy!!

Hopefully I will have pears too next year or the year after. One thing all this PO prepping has taught me is that actually designing your permaculture garden and planting it up is just the beginning - it takes years to actually start to come to full fruition, and in fact the improvements and tending never end, it's a constant job.

This worries me slightly, because if there was a big oil crisis and everyone suddenly decided they wanted permaculture gardens, there would still be a time lag of years before these gardens really came into full production - you can't just force nature to produce!

What does reassure me though is that the end of the oil age isn't so much moving into a new way of life for humanity, it's actually just rediscovering a very old way of life, which we have been living for thousands of years - much longer than the couple of hundred with oil. We will be returning to an ancient wisdom, albeit with a modern population.

Should be interesting.

cake · Post by **cake** » 14 Aug 2007, 14:13

Andy Hunt wrote: This worries me slightly, because if there was a big oil crisis and everyone suddenly decided they wanted permaculture gardens, there would still be a time lag of years before these gardens really came into full production - you can't just force nature to produce!:?

having read up quite a bit recently on growing your own this is what worries me as we have not even made a start yet.

Andy Hunt wrote:What does reassure me though is that the end of the oil age isn't so much moving into a new way of life for humanity, it's actually just rediscovering a very old way of life, which we have been living for thousands of years - much longer than the couple of hundred with oil. We will be returning to an ancient wisdom, albeit with a modern population.

Deffo. Once we are past the difficult transition phase I hope life will be much more pleasant and rewarding for those lucky enough to be around for it.

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 14 Aug 2007, 15:42

Pippa wrote: The tree cost ?12.95 so expensive peaches (looks like I'll get 6 this year if wasps and birds don't get them first).

Well..if you look at it the another way, as a long term investment of maybe 75p per year for the tree, it looks like you've more than broken even even in your first year.

Thats valuing your labour at ?0.00 per hour , of course

The resource has only just started to be exploited - you wont hit 'Peak Peaches' for a few years yet, and its going to be quite a tasty little 'well' even on the down slope...

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 14 Aug 2007, 18:13

Andy Hunt wrote: This worries me slightly, because if there was a big oil crisis and everyone suddenly decided they wanted permaculture gardens, there would still be a time lag of years before these gardens really came into full production - you can't just force nature to produce!

This shouldn't be a problem, Andy. We can fill in with annuals until the trees come to fruition. Top fruit like blackcurrants and raspberries will fruit after one year.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 14 Aug 2007, 18:24

kenneal wrote:
Andy Hunt wrote: This worries me slightly, because if there was a big oil crisis and everyone suddenly decided they wanted permaculture gardens, there would still be a time lag of years before these gardens really came into full production - you can't just force nature to produce!
This shouldn't be a problem, Andy. We can fill in with annuals until the trees come to fruition. Top fruit like blackcurrants and raspberries will fruit after one year.

Hmmm..... not so simple methinks.

My fruit bushes took a couple of years to get going - this is their 3 summer and the first really satisfying crop.

Soil fertility will also take some time to build. Especially if everyone is suddenly crying out for the horse manure etc.

Modern agriculture has systematically removed all carbon from the soil. In days gone by fields were small and at least some leaves etc fell to the ground. Without herbicides, weeds grew and come harvesting would have been left in the fields further adding to the soil structure.

Look at a modern field and see acres and acres of barren landscape pumped into action by the injection of quick-acting short life fertilisers that need to be applied through out the growing season.

Fallow years were used for a reason in past agriculture - to build soil structure again. Top growth of grasses etc. Animal wastes etc.

It will take more than a year to restore the land to the quality that it can produce even half reasonable annuals.

Potatoes are perhaps the best short term option.

Keela · Post by **Keela** » 14 Aug 2007, 18:32

Oopps! I've just read the thread title again... I'm guilty of a wandering ramble off topic!!!

Bedrock Barney · Post by **Bedrock Barney** » 29 Sep 2007, 22:49

Good day to you all.

This appears to be the place for newbies to say hello, so.....hello!

I guess my feeling of general unease started after the Sep 11 attacks and the inevitable run up to the invasion of Iraq. Began to do lots web browsing etc and eventually cames across the term peak oil on some website (can't remember where unfortunately.) Quickly trawled through the available resources for info and ended up regularly visiting peakoil.com amd other sites such as lifeaftertheoilcrash and the oildrum. Finally joined the PO.com forum in late 2005 although I've not been the greatest poster ever.

I've hoovered up about 6 or 7 of the classic peak oil books and have now sufficiently frightened myself to mean that I'm thinking about the damn thing most days

Moved house last year and took on a large mortgage (I sense big intakes of breath at this point) but am earning a decent wage so hope to clear within 5 years (if, that is, we have 5 years of half decent economics). Currently installing a wood cooker, tons of insulation. Looking to put in solar hot water. Creating big fruit cage and veg garden. Therefore tyring to act sensibly although who knows where we'll all end up.

Hope to pick up some more local info from this forum and share ideas.

Cheers!

Richard

Andy Hunt · Post by **Andy Hunt** » 30 Sep 2007, 00:06

Hi Richard, welcome to Powerswitch!

Sounds like you've pretty much got a handle on things . . . hopefully we do have 5 years' worth of decent economy left, otherwise I'm stuffed too! (Got about 7 years left on mortgage)

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 30 Sep 2007, 08:32

And from Lincolnshire too. Nice to know there's two of us now!

Bedrock Barney · Post by **Bedrock Barney** » 30 Sep 2007, 13:25

Andy, thanks for the welcome. May we both be mortgage free asap

Biff - glad to increase the Lincolnshire Peak Oil fraternity by 100%. We're in a village near Market Rasen. Nice Yurt by the way!

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 30 Sep 2007, 14:42

Maybe we should form a Local Group

Perhaps you'd like to add yourself to the PowerSwitch Map. (I'm sure there must be lots of folk who haven't yet.)

Our yurt

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 30 Sep 2007, 20:41

I should come clean at this point and say that I learned about Peak Oil at one of the first lectures on the CAT MSc Architecture: Advanced Env and Energy Studies. 'Twas in September 2005.

But long before then I had my suspicions that 'something's gotta give' I thought we'd run out of fertile land, or poison it irrevocably, first!

Bedrock Barney · Post by **Bedrock Barney** » 01 Oct 2007, 10:37

biffvernon wrote:Maybe we should form a Local Group
Good idea although I suspect we will need a few more local forum members to make it work. I think forums such as this will snowball as awareness picks up. I'm trying with friends and family although most people cannot (or will not) cope with PO concepts. I think I'm viewed as a bit of a disaster porn doomer who reads too many depressing books.

Cabrone · Post by **Cabrone** » 01 Oct 2007, 19:10

Hopefully I will have pears too next year or the year after

Me too, I've put down 2 pear trees in the last 12 months which look to be doing OK, hopefully I should be getting some fruit within a couple of years.

Been eating a lot of apples from my parents garden, they get more than they know what to do with so I'm always happy to oblige.

Even on my postage stamp sized garden I had a decent rocket, potato, carrot and onion harvest this year but the tomatoes and beans were a bit of a wash out. I really should have put down more of those beer slug traps, they are really effective.

Still need the supermarket at the moment (at least I walk to it) but working hard to wean myself off as much as possible.