Climate Camp: "the energy gap is a nonsense"

[adam2]

This could power direct electric heating, and for calm weather electric storage heating*
...
*this could be conventional electric storage heaters, or a large tank of hot water and conventional radiators.

That's a fascinating idea. We have plenty of wind in the west of Ireland. In fact, it's very noticeable when the wind stops because it don't seem natural somehow.

The thought of dumping wind energy into storage radiators in winter has got a lot of appeal. Hmmm....

As we are drifting off topic, I will start a new topic on wind powered heating, in the wind power section.

[biffvernon]

Looks like our Malcolm Wicks is a troubled man as he tries to justify Kingsnorth on Carbon Capture & Storage development, staking all on a technology that might, or might not, work.

Wicks: All is lost on global warming without clean coal

A dramatic warning that "all is lost on global warming" unless the world finds a new clean coal technology in the next few years has been made by the UK energy minister, Malcolm Wicks.

He insists in a Guardian interview that "the stakes are that high", as he seeks to justify pressing ahead with a new generation of coal-fired power stations starting at Kingsnorth in Kent, currently the site of a major protest.

With talk of divisions within the cabinet over the issue, the government is likely to give Kingsnorth the go-ahead, so long as it is carbon capture ready.

The as yet unproven technology of carbon capture and storage (CCS) is thought to be capable of cutting greenhouse gas emissions from coal stations by 90%, but Wicks admitted the EU was well away from its target of building as many as 12 demonstration projects.

Wicks justified going ahead with a new generation of coal-fired power stations on the basis that it was the only way that a demonstration project for CCS technology could be developed in the UK.

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[Ludwig]

Pity we wasted £100 billion nationalizing Northern Rock. That could have provided a good step in the right direction.

Wait till your bank needs rescuing - you might see things differently then!

Northern Rock was just a sign of things to come. At some point the Government is just going to have to say, "OK, no more bail-outs" and all our savings vanish in the wind.

[skeptik]

Pity we wasted £100 billion nationalizing Northern Rock. That could have provided a good step in the right direction.

Wait till your bank needs rescuing - you might see things differently then!

Fortunately the Spanish banks are more heavily regulated than in the UK and have not got involved in such dodgy lending and borrowing as NR. They are currently well capitalized with 200% provision against bad debt, EU average is 60%. Neither are they allowed to invest in derivatives, so avoided the CDO crap from the USA.

NR should have been liquidated, depositors covered under FSCS. Shareholders zilch. Greedy bastard bank directors barred for life. "The value of your investment can go up or down." or indeed sometimes to zero. - except obviously when you've invested in a bank, in which case you get your arse covered by the taxpayer.

[lancasterlad]

Last month I went to a presentation by one of the three main political partys about energy.

There was a nuclear generation plant director, someone from the oil industry and someone specialising in renewables.

Bottom line, we're screwed. Unless the government makes decisions NOW, the energy gap will not be filled.

Nuclear - unless we get the orders in for the pressure vessels, we'll be at the back of the queue - there are only so many manufacturers.

Wind - unless we start building in real quantities, fast, we will not have anywhere near the generation capacity required and again, we'll be at the back of the queue - there are only so many manufacturers. In fact, the view was, there isn't enough manufacturing capacity even if we did order now.

Oil - not just peak but simple supply and demand will push up prices AND we're at the end of the pipe

Not only did they suggest that current govt policy will not deliver, they admitted that THEIR energy policy will not deliver.

My reading of the situation was 'prepare for brownouts' and look after yourself because govt aren't going to solve this one.

[biffvernon]

Pity we wasted £100 billion nationalizing Northern Rock. That could have provided a good step in the right direction.

Is'nt it standing at £17.5billion? Time was when nationalising banks was thought a smart idea.

[skeptik]

Pity we wasted £100 billion nationalizing Northern Rock. That could have provided a good step in the right direction.

Is'nt it standing at £17.5billion? Time was when nationalising banks was thought a smart idea.

Nobody seems to be sure exactly how much. 100 billion is the worst case scenario, I think. Saw another figure of £55billion mentioned in todays Sunday Times. Depends on how many mortgages go bad, I suppose.

The Telegraph mentioned the 100Billion I had tucked away in the back of my head...

Northern Rock deal could cost us each £3,500

By Andrew Porter, Robert Winnett and Edmund Conway

The cost of the Northern Rock crisis has reached the equivalent of £3,500 for every taxpayer as experts warned that the nationalisation rescue of the bank was bound to fail

Taxpayers' exposure to the beleaguered bank has doubled since the beginning of the year and now stands at about £110 billion - more than the annual budget of the NHS and the equivalent of 27p on the basic rate of income tax.

[peaky2]

FWIW (after 4 pages) I emailed this to CC's web site on the 1st of August:

I really love your "Why Kingsnorth?" page, which is hard hitting and funny - excellent stuff. However, I'd take serious issue with point 7. If you read the energy sites such as PowerSwitch and The Oil Drum [ http://uk.theoildrum.com ] (especially) it's clear that with the decommissioning schedule of nuclear, the drop in our own gas supplies (50% imported and rising, if we can afford it, by 2010) and our ballooning trade deficit, then if BAU continues, or tries to, there will certainly be an energy gap.

Coal is unlikely to fill it in time anyway, even assuming the government were bonkers enough to get them built (which of course they are!). Renewables can't fill it in time either - you quote the government's targets for renewable generation as though they'll happen, but they are about as likely to happen as the government hitting it's inflation, education, CO2/Kyoto targets and so on and so on.

We need to reduce demand and stop buying so much crap as you brilliant express it in point 6.

But an energy gap - no way is it "nonsense", it's inevitable.