Man Made Global Warming - Fact or Fiction?

MisterE · Post by **MisterE** » 27 Sep 2007, 17:16

Global warming.

Well like everyone on this board I would love nothing more than to live in perfect harmony with the planet. I think being as natural as possible also makes very happy humans.

Clearly when we look at today?s lifestyles living in such a manner is not really happening, we pollute everything and so apparently we got man made global warming.

I read many posts on here from people who are far more intelligent than me, especially on this subject. I just read a bit and watch documentaries, look at the world and try to make an informed decision.

I watched ?an inconveint truth? and thought OOooooOOOoO we are in some trouble here, that don?t look good.

However prior to this I read and watch a lot of government nonsense ie the creation of police states, world government, now etc yes yes I know I shouldn?t of read 1984 as a kid. I like to watch peak oil stuff ie like the ?end of suburbia?. To me the PO films all give the same message ie downsize now and prepare.

Then you look at that from a government perspective, that is a government that is only concerned with its individual members becoming wealthy ie FU Jack I?m alright types. To me in order to keep the coin coming in they hide PO and set up hard rightwing to borderline Nazi systems ready to control the masses when they wake up to PO and kick off.

To me all of this fits like a glove. Which brings me back to global warming. I watch a lot of nature stuff, I?m heavily into astronomy due to the old man and I like a bit of history. Every time I?d watch something on global warming I'd feel shocked but though errrrrrrrr, planet has been here a long time and faced worse, sun is a big bloody thing and cosmic rays again effect the earth massively. What possible input could man ever produce to alter the earth, I always felt like the answer was none.

Then I watch the great global warming swindle on C4 and that really hit home to me and made sense.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsi ... index.html

Since then I strongly believe that man made global warming does not exist, and that it is nothing more than a tool of the powers to be to get us ready for PO. Even the tipping point argument I just don?t buy into. Whilst I accept there is natural perfectly fine and normal global warming I just cant see all this catastrophe stuff. That said I do believe that solutions offered to combat global warming should be used, but only because that helps with the PO problem and more importantly we are not the only ones living on the planet and should be providing the best environment for all.

So the point to my post is I thought it would be interesting to see how many Peaknics believe there is ?man made global warming? or that it?s all a con and its nothing more than natural global warming, or that there is natural global warming and our input is tipping us over this natural event into unknown and possibly dangerous territory.

PS should have put both natural and man made not both the above lol in poll. Lol got man flu and we all know how bad that is mwuahahahaaaaa

careful_eugene · Post by **careful_eugene** » 27 Sep 2007, 17:36

Mister E I'm similar to you in that I get most of my information from documentries, internet, newspapers e.t.c and I try to make an informed decision. The majority of climate scientists now agree that man made global warming is real and is adversly affecting the planet.

I too saw the great climate swindle on channel 4 and also read some angry rebuttals online
http://www.medialens.org/alerts/07/0321 ... le_the.php

If it really were a tool of the powers to be to get us ready for PO why does the government of the USA not agree to impose limits on carbon emissions?

Adam1 · Post by **Adam1** » 27 Sep 2007, 17:42

Mark Lynas's "Six Degrees" and Fred Pearce's "Last Generation" are both worth reading, if you haven't already.

MisterE · Post by **MisterE** » 27 Sep 2007, 18:10

Thanks for that guys, will check out the link and get those books to read when working away. Ta

stumuz · Post by **stumuz** » 27 Sep 2007, 19:22

I did not vote, as there was not a box for Kay sera sera. GW/CC has nothing to do with you or I . Concentrate your efforts on something more productive. Try building one of these in your garden.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_stove

21st_century_caveman · Post by **21st_century_caveman** » 27 Sep 2007, 20:11

I subscribe to the view that the Earth is a complex system, a property of complex systems is that they can rapidly undergo large changes in state and the causes of these changes can be very small indeed.
See Chaos Theory, Butterfly effect etc.

Interestingly i was at a lecture today on climate change and it was very alarming, the person (a PhD student) giving the lecture had interpreted the latest evidence to suggest that we are very close to such a rapid change to the climate system.
After the lecture, PO came up in coversation (the lecurer did mention it in passing), well at least one person in the audience dismissed PO, citing the usual stuff: technology, investment, tar sands, coal-liquids etc, yet was perfectly happy to except the dire AGW scenarios, at least one person on these forums is the opposite of that.
Humans are a diverse buch and very adaptable, i'm sure some of us will survive somewhere.

RenewableCandy · Post by **RenewableCandy** » 27 Sep 2007, 20:59

Well I'm a meteorologist of sorts and I have watched Mr Gore strut his stuff (live and on film) and have also seen the Great GW Swindle on C4. The 800-year timelag intrigued me.

I chose 'both of the above...tipping point'. My view fwiw is that there has been plenty of 'natural' CC in the past, even (possibly) times when there was more CO_2 than there is now, yes it makes the trees/plankton etc grow faster so there are negative (correcting) AND positive (runaway) feedbacks in the system.

Into this ever-varying system we stride and suddenly (by all previous timescales) let off a load of CO_2, CH4, NOx and a host of other GH gases. It is the RATE of change that bothers me, that and the fact that we simply have no 'slack' in the system to play with, we've colonised everywhere colonisable and then some. Sea level rises by 2m you'd think we might cope, but no: out go many of our big cities, large fertile parts of 'God's Own County' go to salt (Yorkshire, where chances are some of your food comes from) and Bangladesh. Where are they all going to live (Birmingham??

) and many more places.

The argument about HMG using CC as a 'cover' for PO is probably true, but I think CC is happening anyway.

Right to the point now I've wittered on enough: realclimate.org is run by meteorologists. THEY all think CC is in full swing. They have a good point-by-point demolition job of the GGWS, including the 800-year time-lag, which I shan't bore y'all with but it convinced me.

But I don't know whether that all means the GulfStream will pack up...

biffvernon · Post by **biffvernon** » 27 Sep 2007, 21:24

If you want to learn about science go to the scientists, not TV shows.

http://www.realclimate.org/
http://rabett.blogspot.com/

are my two favourite sites, with links to all the rest.

Cabrone · Post by **Cabrone** » 27 Sep 2007, 22:40

Mark Lynas's "Six Degrees" and Fred Pearce's "Last Generation" are both worth reading, if you haven't already.

I haven't read Pearce but '6 degrees' is one of the scariest things I've ever read.

dr_doom · Post by **dr_doom** » 28 Sep 2007, 00:15

The reason I don't believe man is causing global warming is because other planets in the solar system are heating up a lot as well as earth.

The current warming is the result of solar cycles.

Post by **clv101** » 28 Sep 2007, 00:18

dr_doom wrote:The reason I don't believe man is causing global warming is because other planets in the solar system are heating up a lot as well as earth.

The current warming is the result of solar cycles.

That's a bold statement - how come others haven't picked up on this? I mean Jim Hansen spent is entire career looking at planetary radiative forcings - did no one show him this paper?

dr_doom · Post by **dr_doom** » 28 Sep 2007, 00:32

Probably because it doesn't fit with the "man made" global warming propaganda.

The ice caps of mars have been melting for the last few years.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... rming.html

As have the ice-moons of Jupiter.

Post by **kenneal - lagger** » 28 Sep 2007, 04:31

I've just deleted a detailed rebuttal of Dr Doom's post because it's not worth a reply. If he won't listen to a great majority of the world's scientists, he's not going to listen to us on this forum. So I'm not going to bother with him.

syberberg · Post by **syberberg** » 28 Sep 2007, 05:10

kenneal wrote:I've just deleted a detailed rebuttal of Dr Doom's post because it's not worth a reply. If he won't listen to a great majority of the world's scientists, he's not going to listen to us on this forum. So I'm not going to bother with him.

I mean, would it really be worth pointing out that the "ice caps" of Mars are made up of CO2 and not H2O?

That CO2 doesn't melt, it sublimates?

That the mean surface temperature of Mars is -63C (Max temp=20C Min temp=-140C)?

That the extremely thin Martian atmosphere is made up of the following:
Carbon Dioxide (CO2): 95.32%
Nitrogen (N2): 2.7%
Argon (Ar): 1.6%
Oxygen (O2): 0.13%
Water (H2O): 0.03%
Neon (Ne): 0.00025 %
Krypton (Kr): 0.00003%
Xenon (Xe): 0.000008%
Ozone (O3): 0.000003%

That the CO2 freezes out of the atmosphere to form an immense polar cap, alternately at each pole, so that there is only one polar cap at any one time?

That, even if Mars does have a magnetic field, it's so weak that no instrument has yet been able to find one. Which means that, unlike the Earth, Mars has no protection from solar radiation?

Nah, thought not.

skeptik · Post by **skeptik** » 28 Sep 2007, 09:18

syberberg wrote:
I mean, would it really be worth pointing out that the "ice caps" of Mars are made up of CO2 and not H2O?

Not really, as they're made up of both. The water ice appears to move from one pole to another on a 51,000 year cycle as a result of variations in the way the planet spins (precession).

http://www.esa.int/SPECIALS/Mars_Expres ... P3F_0.html

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Man Made Global Warming - Fact or Fiction?

Man Made Global Warming fact or fiction?

Man Made Global Warming - Fact or Fiction?