28, my last birthday in my twenties will be in November. Gah - where did that decade go?! I swear last week I was just starting uni.....
As for how I found out, well I reckon it was back in late 2004 / early 2005, and it was doing some research for work - we were looking at different energy supply projections from a climate change perspective, a google search that changed my life. Ah the old days before open plan offices. I think I just read more and more and followed links for about a week.
Age of Powerswitchers?
Moderator: Peak Moderation
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Miss Madam
- Posts: 415
- Joined: 24 Nov 2005, 11:09
- Location: Oxford, UK
I'm 43, have been aware of peak oil for about 18 months after reading the Hirsch Report. I also still have my doomerish moments, for instance, when I think about the risks of a wider middle east war which permanently and suddenly reduces the energy supply. Or when I look at the number of trends which are heading in the entirely the wrong direction. However, I don't think that a hard collapse is inevitable, possible maybe; the descent will be punctuated with bumps, as various crises hit us and they will make the descent feel pretty hard at times.
I don't think the physical, geological and mathematical reality of peak energy/limits to growth in a finite system will be understood, until some years after the peak. Politicians, commentators and 'experts' will continue to give above-ground explanations for most early post-peak effects. Those they can't explain will be swept under the rug until they can't be ignored any longer. I am optimistic that some of the right decisions will be made, as a result of awareness of climate change/carbon emissions. People seem to be able to feel better about things/themselves if they see their actions as helping to 'saving the planet' rather than saving humans!
It is still worth raising awareness about peak oil and trying to influence things so that we (government, industry & individuals) don't make too many bad decisions over the coming years.
I don't think the physical, geological and mathematical reality of peak energy/limits to growth in a finite system will be understood, until some years after the peak. Politicians, commentators and 'experts' will continue to give above-ground explanations for most early post-peak effects. Those they can't explain will be swept under the rug until they can't be ignored any longer. I am optimistic that some of the right decisions will be made, as a result of awareness of climate change/carbon emissions. People seem to be able to feel better about things/themselves if they see their actions as helping to 'saving the planet' rather than saving humans!
It is still worth raising awareness about peak oil and trying to influence things so that we (government, industry & individuals) don't make too many bad decisions over the coming years.
37 as of yesterday - another Piscean Powerswitcher!
I am an eternal optimist - I think that cataclysmic global societal and economic collapse will cleanse the planet of evil and give rise to a new kind of humanity which holds nature in divine sanctity and whose enlightened spirit and new-found understanding of planetary ecosystems enables an expansion of the species into the solar system and beyond . . .
Ooh blimey, is it morning already?
(rubs eyes sleepily . . . )
I am an eternal optimist - I think that cataclysmic global societal and economic collapse will cleanse the planet of evil and give rise to a new kind of humanity which holds nature in divine sanctity and whose enlightened spirit and new-found understanding of planetary ecosystems enables an expansion of the species into the solar system and beyond . . .
Ooh blimey, is it morning already?
(rubs eyes sleepily . . . )
Andy Hunt
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
http://greencottage.burysolarclub.net
Eternal Sunshine wrote: I wouldn't want to worry you with the truth.
I'm 28 and I'm tending towards the optimistic side although I do occasionally get the whole 'humans are stupid, we've all had it, I despair of modern society' thought trains.
I found out about PO a couple of years ago on the Guardian talkboard when I found a user called 'powerswitchorguk' making some posts. I always considered what would happen to us humans when the oil ran out but thought it would have been beyond my lifetime... d'oh! No security blanket for me now.
I found out about PO a couple of years ago on the Guardian talkboard when I found a user called 'powerswitchorguk' making some posts. I always considered what would happen to us humans when the oil ran out but thought it would have been beyond my lifetime... d'oh! No security blanket for me now.
I've been cognisant that "oil will run out" ever since a day in school assembly in 1977 where some children were talking about North Sea Oil.
Around 1980, I remember watching some programme about "the 3 million unemployed", noticing that all of the discussion was about job creation, with nothing about controlling the other variable (population). Politics was about promising more, rather than making do with less. "If we had 3 million less people in the country there would be no unemployment" I naively said to people (well I was only 10 at the time!).
At school, in 1985, I remember studying exponential population growth, with a graph showing population outstripping resources, with the equation "population - resources = misery". We also learnt about the deforestation of the DODGY TAX AVOIDERS, as well as how there were problems with running out of landfill space, and the problems with non-biodegradable plastics.
At college in 1991 I saw a documentary (by FoE, I think) detailing how humans are literally stripping the planet bare of resources, which left us all feeling pretty depressed. I took a lot of interest in renewable energy and recycling.
In 1992 I saw a documentary on how "the West" used 125 times the resources (per capita) of Indians, and how India wanted to industrialise. From that moment, I started using less resource (i.e. hit on the idea of "Contraction and Convergence" without even realising it). People thought I was wierd holding on to used plastic bottles because I felt that "we'll be recycling them before long". I shaved my hair to avoid using shampoo.
I remember saying to people in 1998 that oil is probably going to run out in about 30 years time, and that we should all drive less and recycle plastics. Gentle persuasion and voluntary action.
Now maybe, just maybe, all of that background was enough to make me very recipient to the Peak Oil message; I was primed, I was already most of the way there. I'd connected most of the dots.
I discovered PO in 2000 when watching Colin Campbell on "The Money Programme". A programme that I don't usually watch, the TV just happened to be on BBC2. "Price Shocks in about 5 years, real shortages in about 10". It made sense immediately; it wouldn't suddenly "run out", there would be a transitional period. All expectations of the future just, erm, vanished! All of a sudden, I realised that gentle persuasion and voluntary action would not be enough, and hard times will befall us. Soon after I started taking an interest in history, beginning with how the Nazis came to power. I didn't give a toss about history at school; PO introduced contexts. Every time a new dimension cropped up (e.g. relocalisation) I'd look into, "what is the lesson from history?".
In 2003, someone linked a conspiracy website ("What Really Happened") on a gaming forum, from there I discovered "From The Wilderness", then dieoff.org, wolfatthedoor, peakoil.net, peakoil.com, LATOC, and PowerSwitch.
We can change things a little, and hopefully we'll have some fun along the way. Sh1t happens!
Around 1980, I remember watching some programme about "the 3 million unemployed", noticing that all of the discussion was about job creation, with nothing about controlling the other variable (population). Politics was about promising more, rather than making do with less. "If we had 3 million less people in the country there would be no unemployment" I naively said to people (well I was only 10 at the time!).
At school, in 1985, I remember studying exponential population growth, with a graph showing population outstripping resources, with the equation "population - resources = misery". We also learnt about the deforestation of the DODGY TAX AVOIDERS, as well as how there were problems with running out of landfill space, and the problems with non-biodegradable plastics.
At college in 1991 I saw a documentary (by FoE, I think) detailing how humans are literally stripping the planet bare of resources, which left us all feeling pretty depressed. I took a lot of interest in renewable energy and recycling.
In 1992 I saw a documentary on how "the West" used 125 times the resources (per capita) of Indians, and how India wanted to industrialise. From that moment, I started using less resource (i.e. hit on the idea of "Contraction and Convergence" without even realising it). People thought I was wierd holding on to used plastic bottles because I felt that "we'll be recycling them before long". I shaved my hair to avoid using shampoo.
I remember saying to people in 1998 that oil is probably going to run out in about 30 years time, and that we should all drive less and recycle plastics. Gentle persuasion and voluntary action.
Now maybe, just maybe, all of that background was enough to make me very recipient to the Peak Oil message; I was primed, I was already most of the way there. I'd connected most of the dots.
I discovered PO in 2000 when watching Colin Campbell on "The Money Programme". A programme that I don't usually watch, the TV just happened to be on BBC2. "Price Shocks in about 5 years, real shortages in about 10". It made sense immediately; it wouldn't suddenly "run out", there would be a transitional period. All expectations of the future just, erm, vanished! All of a sudden, I realised that gentle persuasion and voluntary action would not be enough, and hard times will befall us. Soon after I started taking an interest in history, beginning with how the Nazis came to power. I didn't give a toss about history at school; PO introduced contexts. Every time a new dimension cropped up (e.g. relocalisation) I'd look into, "what is the lesson from history?".
In 2003, someone linked a conspiracy website ("What Really Happened") on a gaming forum, from there I discovered "From The Wilderness", then dieoff.org, wolfatthedoor, peakoil.net, peakoil.com, LATOC, and PowerSwitch.
I'm 36, and having realised the lesson from history is that we don't learn from history (so it inevitably repeats itself), having had numerous arguments with people about renewable energy, seeing how conservative the planning system is, and seeing how much people take energy for granted, I am firmly in the doomer camp. People's expectations are just too high. I've been through phases of getting frustrated (militant) at people, but now I'm a lot more relaxed and just laugh at all of the ridiculous things people do, and accept that lots of people are going to die prematurely or horribly. The sh1t will hit the fan, but it will be OK; the inevitable will just happen.Tess wrote:I wonder if the doomers are generally younger than the rest. Seems that way sometimes.
We can change things a little, and hopefully we'll have some fun along the way. Sh1t happens!
Olduvai Theory (Updated) (Reviewed)
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
Easter Island - a warning from history : http://dieoff.org/page145.htm
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Aurora
Thanks Bandidoz.
I am also frustrated by the apathy I meet and am coming to the conclusion that you might as well sit back (with a nice glass of wine) and enjoy the spectacle as it unfolds.
There is an inevitability about the whole situation which we mere mortals seem powerless to change.
I am also frustrated by the apathy I meet and am coming to the conclusion that you might as well sit back (with a nice glass of wine) and enjoy the spectacle as it unfolds.
There is an inevitability about the whole situation which we mere mortals seem powerless to change.
Last edited by Aurora on 20 Mar 2007, 08:25, edited 1 time in total.
Brill post Bandidoz. I agree with you and Aurora that we are not going to change anything. I suspect even if people have an inkling of what is going to happen, they will not change as they are basically selfish. The people who will Reduce, Re-use and Recycle already do anyway and it's only when we get to the end game, when things get tough, will people change by having to.
Yep, sit back with a glass of amber nectar and enjoy our lives whilst we still can and dont let the doomer in you quell your sense of humour.
Yep, sit back with a glass of amber nectar and enjoy our lives whilst we still can and dont let the doomer in you quell your sense of humour.
It's all downhill from here!
Exactly. This is the point I'm trying to make in the TEQ discussion.Dinor wrote:Brill post Bandidoz. I agree with you and Aurora that we are not going to change anything. I suspect even if people have an inkling of what is going to happen, they will not change as they are basically selfish. The people who will Reduce, Re-use and Recycle already do anyway and it's only when we get to the end game, when things get tough, will people change by having to.
Yep, sit back with a glass of amber nectar and enjoy our lives whilst we still can and dont let the doomer in you quell your sense of humour.
"Forget your flipping TEQs - just give me the ****ing petrol ... I have a party to go to tonight."
I'm currently at 43 years of consumption, I awoke about 2 years ago, I stuck my head out and did not like what I saw. So my family and I have set about changing our ways. We are a small and very happy family we have more than we could wish for and are baffeled by all the greed and consumerism of the modern world its so pointless, It seem obviouse to me that when you step back from the madness and embrace the simple things in life you realise that less is indeed more and that peak oil is not such a big deal, it is simply inevitable, I say enjoy the wind the sun and rain, get your hands in the soil and open your eyes to reality it is still a very beautiful world. Its fair to say my glass is half full, I raise it to you all and say 'Ic Grete Pe' ( 'I greet you sing' in old english)
So most of us are in our 30s (I'm not 
)
I wonder why that is?
I'm guessing that most people take a few years to mature before they start to communicate about these issues (even if they are actually aware).
Apart from our single individual in the "under 20" band, I think most of that age group are still too busy socialising and otherwise starting jobs etc. to have the time or emotional energy to give to this.
30s sees folk established in their life patterns (career or what ever) and with the time to look around them again and to start to debate these issues.
So why are there fewer in 40s + ? I wonder is that a computer literacy issue. I know I am more computer savvy than many of my peers. I imagine that will decline with each successive older age group. (Due to exposure - certainly I didn't ever get taught computer skills in school or even at Uni.)
And of the much older folk..... Well my gran did enrol on a computer course with her friend when they were both 88.
!
Anyway I've found this interesting. Thanks for all the replies.
)I wonder why that is?
I'm guessing that most people take a few years to mature before they start to communicate about these issues (even if they are actually aware).
Apart from our single individual in the "under 20" band, I think most of that age group are still too busy socialising and otherwise starting jobs etc. to have the time or emotional energy to give to this.
30s sees folk established in their life patterns (career or what ever) and with the time to look around them again and to start to debate these issues.
So why are there fewer in 40s + ? I wonder is that a computer literacy issue. I know I am more computer savvy than many of my peers. I imagine that will decline with each successive older age group. (Due to exposure - certainly I didn't ever get taught computer skills in school or even at Uni.)
And of the much older folk..... Well my gran did enrol on a computer course with her friend when they were both 88.
!Anyway I've found this interesting. Thanks for all the replies.
Sorry I haven't voted 'til now. I've been far too busy gloating about the fact that I'm in a minority group (the over 40's ). Still now that I have I've altered the stats and we're not so minority as before.
Perhaps the folks under 30 are so massively brainwashed with thoughts of endless dvds, 24 hour tele, reality tv, new cars and the idea that global warming will make the Uk the next holiday destination (forget having to get on a plane and go to Spain) that they can't be bothered, for now, to disagree or dispute with what they hear and believe.
). Still now that I have I've altered the stats and we're not so minority as before.Perhaps the folks under 30 are so massively brainwashed with thoughts of endless dvds, 24 hour tele, reality tv, new cars and the idea that global warming will make the Uk the next holiday destination (forget having to get on a plane and go to Spain) that they can't be bothered, for now, to disagree or dispute with what they hear and believe.
I'm 34.Discovered Peakoil through the work of Mike Ruppert and the rest of the writers being published at From The Wilderness.
I always believed in preparing for a worst case scenario,that way if it isn't as bad as that then you're probably ahead of everyone else around you.
Long term i've accepted my job is not going to survive(i work for a frieght haulage company),i don't have a mortgage(don't want one),no credit cards(don't want them either).I just want to be in the position that when peak starts to get a lot worse than it currently is i won't be in debt up to my eyeballs unlike the vast majority of the population.
I always believed in preparing for a worst case scenario,that way if it isn't as bad as that then you're probably ahead of everyone else around you.
Long term i've accepted my job is not going to survive(i work for a frieght haulage company),i don't have a mortgage(don't want one),no credit cards(don't want them either).I just want to be in the position that when peak starts to get a lot worse than it currently is i won't be in debt up to my eyeballs unlike the vast majority of the population.
"Plans are pointless.Staying alive's as good as it gets."
I think it might be a case of "I can't do anything about it now so it's not my problem". Besides, they all want their cars and mobility. Telling them it may soon end is a great way to get blanked very quicklyPippa wrote: Perhaps the folks under 30 are so massively brainwashed with thoughts of endless dvds, 24 hour tele, reality tv, new cars and the idea that global warming will make the Uk the next holiday destination (forget having to get on a plane and go to Spain) that they can't be bothered, for now, to disagree or dispute with what they hear and believe.
. Interestingly, I know and I don't own a car