New coronavirus in/from China

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kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

vtsnowedin wrote:
Catweazle wrote:
vtsnowedin wrote: That is complete Bull crap. Sure the average man that reaches 70 has ten years life expectancy but the Day he enters a nursing home his expectancy is just six weeks. The nursing home population has already been sorted out as the weakest of those age groups and that is what the virus finds easy to kill.
And who would want to spend another ten years in a "Home" in the first place.
There may be a language difference problem. Life expectancy in UK care homes is measured in years, not weeks.
Perhaps, for your statement to be true you would have to include all assisted living facilities many of which provide nothing more then maid service and meal preparation. Often those are entered by couples when just one needs any assistance. I'm talking about full nursing homes where patients need care from a nurse or nurse supervised staff on a round the clock basis.
My mother in law was in a full care home for eight years and my mother has been in one for about five years. In the UK they look after their charges very well and it now costs a fortune.

My mother in law didn't cost us a penny as she was assessed as needing full care and so was paid for by the NHS. The government have closed that loop hole now and no one is ever assessed as being in need of full medical care so the patient, family or local authority, if no one else can pay, have to pay for the lot. It usually means that the local authority ends up either taking the patient's house, if they have one, or putting a charge on it so that when it is sold they get first dibs on the proceeds. The local authority is constrained by government on how much they can pay for elderly care so the pay the care homes less than the full cost of care. The care homes make up for this by charging those who can pay more than the cost to subsidise those who can't pay. so those who can pay are, in effect, taxed twice to pay for care of the elderly.
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
kenneal - lagger
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

I don't know why the government pays for all the advice that they take, they could just get onto YouTube or Twitter and get all the advice that they want for free! Mind you most of it would be conflicting and would you want to listen to advice from Donald Trump, free or not?
Action is the antidote to despair - Joan Baez
vtsnowedin
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Post by vtsnowedin »

kenneal - lagger wrote:
My mother in law was in a full care home for eight years and my mother has been in one for about five years. In the UK they look after their charges very well and it now costs a fortune.

My mother in law didn't cost us a penny as she was assessed as needing full care and so was paid for by the NHS. The government have closed that loop hole now and no one is ever assessed as being in need of full medical care so the patient, family or local authority, if no one else can pay, have to pay for the lot. It usually means that the local authority ends up either taking the patient's house, if they have one, or putting a charge on it so that when it is sold they get first dibs on the proceeds. The local authority is constrained by government on how much they can pay for elderly care so the pay the care homes less than the full cost of care. The care homes make up for this by charging those who can pay more than the cost to subsidise those who can't pay. so those who can pay are, in effect, taxed twice to pay for care of the elderly.
That is about the situation here as well. I have often thought that every house and bank account in the US belongs to the health care industry. Sure they let you use it and keep building on to increase it's value but they are just waiting to come collect it.
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Post by fuzzy »

I have been out all day - cummings stylee

There was a sensible link somewhere on tinternet pointing out that the virus is now many different strains [as all coranavirus do]. The strategy of locking up the symptomatic, [perhaps with state paid compensation to employers, and 100% passed to employees after a positive test, maybe 80% without] would have the advantage of evolving the virus to weaker strains as they cause less time out of the social mixing and therefore are passed around more. The worse strains make people symptomatic, and isolate, so cutting the transmission down. Locking everyone blindly, a la UK, is therefore bollx.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

That's fine fuzzy, but what about all the transmission that goes on before people become symptomatic. You have no control over who gets which strain so you don't know which strain will predominate. And we don't have a simple test to decide who has which strain.
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boisdevie
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Post by boisdevie »

kenneal - lagger wrote:That's fine fuzzy, but what about all the transmission that goes on before people become symptomatic. You have no control over who gets which strain so you don't know which strain will predominate. And we don't have a simple test to decide who has which strain.
Then those who are vulnerable or who don't want to risk it self isolate with state support and let the rest of us get back to work
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UndercoverElephant
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Post by UndercoverElephant »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coro ... -597mf5t0d
Crates of beer, bucket hats and Bluetooth speakers are filling Britain’s green spaces as many young people declare that their lockdown is over.

Students say they have been starved of sex and parties for more than two months but that their social lives resumed this week. Restrictions have been eased but gatherings are still forbidden and police have stressed that they will continue to break up large groups in public places.

However, the sunshine is drawing out “throngs� of the nation’s youth who are flocking to parks across the country to have picnics, play football and meet friends they haven’t seen for weeks.

Groups met in Hyde Park in London on Wednesday to enjoy “ice-cream and beer on tap at the kiosks�, one walker said. “This is cheap bottles of wine and tinnies weather.�

Parks were also packed with picnics in other cities including Manchester, Birmingham and Leicester.

A group of 100 teenagers gathered on Mothecombe beach, in Plymouth, on Wednesday before police attended and used a dispersal order to clear the area. One witness said they were “all drinking and having BBQs together — it was clearly a mass gathering that was prearranged.�

Yesterday in Bushy Park, near Hampton Court Palace in southwest London, a pile of beer cans was growing next to a dozen students sat on picnic blankets and listening to music.

Michael Lucas, 19, a commercial photography student, was among the group. He said that coming home from university and being locked away from friends had been boring. Clutching a can of lager, he told The Times: “It’s been like ten weeks that we’ve been in lockdown. It was bound to happen soon.

“Being in quarantine is not good for my mental health because I can’t have sex. We haven’t been able to meet anyone. In lockdown we’ve been working on our flirting skills online because all we have time for is flirting.�

Sat beside him was Chloe Rowland, 18, who is starting her studies as an English student in September. She said: “Quarantine has got easier — rather than staying in the house for ten weeks we’re all sat together. But I don’t think it’s going to last long because just look at us — there will be a second peak.

“Young people are getting a bit risqué,� she said as a friend chipped in to admit the group had “the odd look� of disapproval from passers-by.


At 8pm the music and chatter was interrupted by the sounds of clapping, fireworks and pots being struck as households stood on their doorsteps to show their support for the NHS.

The row over Dominic Cummings breaking lockdown rules had given many youngsters a license to socialise again, Ms Rowland said.

“As young people, we have been told, ‘you can’t do this, you can’t do that,’ about stuff we want to do, and we’ve been obeying for the last ten weeks even though we’re at the best years of our life. We should be going clubbing, making friends, or meeting the people at uni that we’re potentially going to settle down with for the rest of their life.

“But then the main adviser to the prime minister is going out and doing whatever he wants. So it’s like, why can’t I go outside and see people?�

Georgia Cook, 18, said: “I don’t really feel at risk. You kind of forget about it. No one is really wearing masks or gloves. It’s like everyone has taken a step back so you don’t really see it.�

The restrictions have not stopped young lovers enjoying the sunshine either. Many couples separated by the lockdown enjoyed their first dates in the relative freedom this week.

Aston Whiteling, 25, who works in product marketing, went on a romantic park trip with his girlfriend, Isabel Ashbaugh, 25, yesterday — their first date in more than ten weeks. The pair, who have been isolating separately in Putney since March, drank bottles of Corona beer on a nearby green to mark the occasion. Choosing to socialise again felt “like a breath of fresh air�, they said.

“There’s a real feeling of being able to pick up where we left off with each other — we’ve been sitting in the park with a few drinks and enjoying the sun,� Mr Whiteling said.

“Obviously things haven’t returned to normal completely but I think everyone is taking a sensible approach when it comes to meeting up.

“I’ve been cycling to see my mates who live a bit further out to have a few beers and laugh.�

“I think the improved awareness of hygiene in general — washing hands, maintaining distance — makes us feel safer because it’s become second nature.�
My bold. This is a real consequence of the Cummings affair. Anybody who was previously pretending to give a shit certainly has no intention of doing so any more. If Cummings is allowed to flout the rules, so can anybody else who fancies it. What are the police supposed to do in response? If they clamp down on it, they'll be wide open to accusations of political bias.

Boris Johnson is up shit creek without a paddle.
Little John

Post by Little John »

UndercoverElephant wrote:
.....This is a real consequence of the Cummings affair. Anybody who was previously pretending to give a shit certainly had not intention of doing so any more. If Cummings is allowed to flout the rules, so can anybody else who fancies it. What are the police supposed to do in response? If they clamp down on it, they'll be wide open to accusations of political bias.

Boris Johnson is up shit creek without a paddle.
what a load of predictable bourgeois bollocks... :lol:
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clv101
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Post by clv101 »

UndercoverElephant wrote: My bold. This is a real consequence of the Cummings affair. Anybody who was previously pretending to give a shit certainly has no intention of doing so any more. If Cummings is allowed to flout the rules, so can anybody else who fancies it. What are the police supposed to do in response? If they clamp down on it, they'll be wide open to accusations of political bias.

Boris Johnson is up shit creek without a paddle.
It's another example of the government being behind the curve, they closed schools after many parents had already removed children, banned large gatherings after many organisations had unilaterally cancelled already and now lockdown is being relaxed after its already broken down. Hospital admissions will rise again in the coming weeks but government have effectively blown their respect/authority so reinstating controls, even just locally will be very challenging.

Additionally our test/trace/isolate process, described by Johnson as 'world beating' is a joke.
Little John

Post by Little John »

clv101 wrote:
UndercoverElephant wrote: My bold. This is a real consequence of the Cummings affair. Anybody who was previously pretending to give a shit certainly has no intention of doing so any more. If Cummings is allowed to flout the rules, so can anybody else who fancies it. What are the police supposed to do in response? If they clamp down on it, they'll be wide open to accusations of political bias.

Boris Johnson is up shit creek without a paddle.
It's another example of the government being behind the curve, they closed schools after many parents had already removed children, banned large gatherings after many organisations had unilaterally cancelled already and now lockdown is being relaxed after its already broken down. Hospital admissions will rise again in the coming weeks but government have effectively blown their respect/authority so reinstating controls, even just locally will be very challenging.

Additionally our test/trace/isolate process, described by Johnson as 'world beating' is a joke.
Yes, yes, of course. We need more surveillance don't we. You are just gagging for it, aren't you.

Of course you are.... :lol:
stumuz1
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Post by stumuz1 »

UndercoverElephant wrote:
Boris Johnson is up shit creek without a paddle.
1/ You said Cummings was toast. Still in post.

2/ Bojo has an 80 seat majority.

3/ If the 'Youth' have taken a collective decision to unilaterally end the lock down because of Dominic Cummings, then i'm a monkey's uncle.
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Post by Catweazle »

clv101 wrote:……. government have effectively blown their respect/authority so reinstating controls, even just locally will be very challenging.
True. Ending lockdown is of course inevitable and always has been but people trying to score credibility by claiming it is because it wasn't needed in the first place are leading to the belief that it was all a hoax. People are inclined to paranoia and this fills their need, to a simple mind ending lockdown proves it wasn't needed, and the next illogical leap is "What else are they lying about ?"
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Post by fuzzy »

kenneal - lagger wrote:That's fine fuzzy, but what about all the transmission that goes on before people become symptomatic. You have no control over who gets which strain so you don't know which strain will predominate. And we don't have a simple test to decide who has which strain.
The only way out of this is to steer the way the virus evolves by social engineering. This is based on statistical numbers, and will likely not be the best course for a person.

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandem ... infections

https://milindwatve.home.blog/2020/05/2 ... -immunity/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... n-in-wuhan

As for not needing a continuing lockdown - that doesn't mean that it did not have a useful purpose for a short while.
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Post by fuzzy »

The natives [and immigrants] are restless in New York, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Washington:

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/vio ... nationwide

That Dom Cummings has a lot to answer for.
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Post by kenneal - lagger »

Didn't CNN have a black news reporter arrested in odd circumstances and for no reason in the last 48 hours? Strange to burn them down for that!! Although the arrest does show that the police in the US haven't learned anything from the cause of the current unrest.
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