New coronavirus in/from China

[Little John]

................................It seems the the definition of 'safe' has not been changed to mean no risk, ever. The risk of death to the vast majority of people in this country is not that high but we're acting as if Covid will kill us all. It won't but killing the economy stone dead might kill quite a few people more in the long run.

So we should hermetically seal about a million people in their houses for six months, disinfect all their food supply and then let the infection run riot through the rest of the community in the hope that massive initial doses of the virus won't give younger, fit and healthy people a serious enough infection to make a small proportion of them into hospital cases. If that small proportion were to get hostitalised it would be enough to guarantee to overwhelm the health service and push the death rate up.

That is not to mention the overloading of the health service with the consequence of more health workers being infected and dying and the other consequence of non covid cases not being seen and dying from lack of treatment. There would also be a considerable loss of health workers through exhaustion. But anything goes to save the economy because I'm relatively young and fit and it won't touch me!!

I really take exception to your spiteful post which implies that I have some kind of 'I'm allright Jack attitude. It really is none of your sodding business but I do 6 hours voluntary work a week and will be doing a shift at 0500 tomorrow morning. My work brings me into contact with people with mental health issues and this lockdown and the fear that the narrative has created is causing massive problems already and that's before the worst economic and financial problems hit. If we're going to get into mudslinging then do you think say a 25% reduction in GDP will not be a teeny weeny bit of a bad thing?

Ah, but you see, that's the thing about petite bourgeois types who, underneath everything, secretly think they know best for everyone else. They don't actually think their kind of supercilious, passive aggressive moralizing is actual aggression. It's only when rough people like me use ugly words.

[clv101]

Yes, we mustn't given in "hate speech" or "fake news" or "extremist" thinking now must we....

You predictable bunch of petite bourgeois middle class twits.

You promote an article containing such gems as:

It is possible that Jo Cox was killed to keep the UK in the EU, and that her murder was not the action of a lone lunatic, but was contrived by the state for propaganda purposes. If this is the case, she was killed to silence any dissent to the globalist agenda.

I reply saying how I've just read a book looking at extremism, and how this is exactly the kind of article discussed. I think you'd find the book interesting.

[Little John]

Yes, we mustn't given in "hate speech" or "fake news" or "extremist" thinking now must we....

You predictable bunch of petite bourgeois middle class twits.

You promote an article containing such gems as:

It is possible that Jo Cox was killed to keep the UK in the EU, and that her murder was not the action of a lone lunatic, but was contrived by the state for propaganda purposes. If this is the case, she was killed to silence any dissent to the globalist agenda.

I reply saying how I've just read a book looking at extremism, and how this is exactly the kind of article discussed. I think you'd find the book interesting.

I consider it entirely plausible and not at all "extremist" that Jo Cox was killed in order to keep the UK in the EU. Just because a position is not held by the mainstream media and usual talking heads in the public discourse of the intelligentsia does not make it "extremist" in the way you are clearly implying. Additionally, a view being held in common by that same intelligentsia and disseminated by the mainstream media does not automatically protect it from being extremist in the way you imply.

[clv101]

According to this testing survey, 1 in 400 people in the UK were infected with virus in the two weeks to 10 May, so about 148,000. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52662066

I know some people here have spent time modelling the figures, so can anyone translate that into how many people might have actually had it so far? My gut feeling, without doing any maths, is it's looking like a relatively small proportion of the population?

I think 4% was mentioned on the Monday press conference. 60,000 deaths from 4% of 66 million equates to a 2.2% fatality rate. Were it to infect 60% of the population over a two year period, we're looking at 900k deaths, or around 1200 per day. Assuming no improvement in treatment.

However, that 2.2% figure could be high if care homes are being disproportionately hit - ie the virus is burning through care homes faster than the general population. Maybe it's 1% - so we're back to the original number of around half a million.

[clv101]

My work brings me into contact with people with mental health issues and this lockdown and the fear that the narrative has created is causing massive problems already and that's before the worst economic and financial problems hit. If we're going to get into mudslinging then do you think say a 25% reduction in GDP will not be a teeny weeny bit of a bad thing?

Absolutely, the UK lockdown has been a disaster. FAR greater social and economic cost, for less positive health impact than many other countries. Had we locked down earlier (2 weeks would have done it), and more robustly/smarter (isolating all arrivals for 14 days, not releasing covid +ve patients into care homes etc) then there would have been dramatically fewer deaths and we'd be well on the way to unlocking - as other countries now are.

The problem is the lockdown per se, it's the UK's botched implementation.

[Little John]

Something has become very clear to me.

Liberals love authority - as long as it reinforces their own bigotry. Liberals are like perfect prison wardens. There is a strong sadomasochistic tendency in them. It's on display here all of the time. Indeed, I find it hilariously ironic that such liberals see themselves as pro-liberty and pro-tolerance. The modern incarnation of liberals are, however, anything but liberal. They are brought up to despise the working class, patriotism, borders etc.

No wonder I am seeing an overlap between Remainers and pro-lockdowners. This viral pandemic has merely lost a few and gained a few in terms of who sits on which side of each of those phenomena. But, the position of the bulk of protagonists are unchanged.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... n-history/

The new coronavirus is real.

The response to the coronavirus is hyped. And in time, this hype will be revealed as politically hoaxed.

In fact, COVID-19 will go down as one of the political world’s biggest, most shamefully overblown, overhyped, overly and irrationally inflated and outright deceptively flawed responses to a health matter in American history, one that was carried largely on the lips of medical professionals who have no business running a national economy or government.

The facts are this: COVID-19 is a real disease that sickens some, proves fatal to others, mostly the elderly — and does nothing to the vast majority.

That’s it.

[mikepepler]

Absolutely, the UK lockdown has been a disaster. FAR greater social and economic cost, for less positive health impact than many other countries. Had we locked down earlier (2 weeks would have done it), and more robustly/smarter (isolating all arrivals for 14 days, not releasing covid +ve patients into care homes etc) then there would have been dramatically fewer deaths and we'd be well on the way to unlocking - as other countries now are.

The problem is the lockdown per se, it's the UK's botched implementation.

This has been my impression too. If the UK had taken what was happening in Italy seriously, we could have locked down in early March, had stricter controls (only essential people working) and rigorous enforcement (they had roadblocks in Greece). If we'd done that, we'd be out of lockdown now, as the scale of infection would be small enough to make testing, tracing and isolating pretty straightforward. So the current mess is solely the fault of govt and its advisors.

[clv101]

If the UK had taken what was happening in Italy seriously, we could have locked down in early March, had stricter controls (only essential people working) and rigorous enforcement (they had roadblocks in Greece). If we'd done that, we'd be out of lockdown now, as the scale of infection would be small enough to make testing, tracing and isolating pretty straightforward. So the current mess is solely the fault of govt and its advisors.

I believe this is true. This situation was largely avoidable - and not with hindsight, but with information we had at the time.

That more people don't see this is victory for government's propaganda.

[fuzzy]

Seemed a good summary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6h8TIxeg1g

[PS_RalphW]

Khan introduces extensive pedestrianisation of central London, and re-introduces are raised congestion charge at £15 a day. See Guardian.

[eatyourveg]

Khan introduces extensive pedestrianisation of central London, and re-introduces are raised congestion charge at £15 a day. See Guardian.

That is good news, let's hope it sticks and happens elsewhere too.

[Mean Mr Mustard II]

Interesting to note on today's Chris Martenson a video sharply contrasting Jacinda Ardern vs Boris Pifflewaffle - the proactive left NZ authoritarian vs reactive (eventually) little Englander libertarian. The vid was produced by Momentum, which has bothered a few commenters, but it's only offering simple factual contrast. This seems to chime with the Political Compass theory, which posits Left / Right Authoritarian / Libertarian.

[Mean Mr Mustard II]

Ah, here's the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2UoBUcW2I

[Thefatcrofter]

How do people on here feel Nicola Sturgeon has done to date compared to Boris Johnson?
We briefly discussed it at work the other day and I was surprised by the level of approval random bunch of guys including a Welshman.
Indeed does she get any coverage down South?

[UndercoverElephant]

If the UK had taken what was happening in Italy seriously, we could have locked down in early March, had stricter controls (only essential people working) and rigorous enforcement (they had roadblocks in Greece). If we'd done that, we'd be out of lockdown now, as the scale of infection would be small enough to make testing, tracing and isolating pretty straightforward. So the current mess is solely the fault of govt and its advisors.

I believe this is true. This situation was largely avoidable - and not with hindsight, but with information we had at the time.

That more people don't see this is victory for government's propaganda.

Yes to all that.

They had enough information to take that decision, and deliberately didn't because they decided it would cost too much money. Instead they thought they could get away with letting the virus run free while claiming that wasn't actually what they were doing, and went fully down that path. They only stopped when people started talking about genocide or crimes against humanity, and the rest of Europe was clearly following a different path, so they realised they couldn't get away with it after all. But by then it was too late.

I'm getting pretty bored of the lockdown though. I still fear the disease, but the monotony is grinding me down.