AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

[jonny2mad]

Can I just confirm that if some crisis befalls the UK (civil war, environmental disaster, or whatever) neither of you will be moving abroad. You'll just stay in the country of your birth and won't hypocritically think about moving to a country where you might have a better quality of life.

If people are daft enough to let me impose myself on them in those circumstances I would of course take full advantage of them,

I’ve worked with people who came to the UK as refugees and heard them talk about the best things to say to beat the asylum system; on a personal level I don't blame them at all for taking advantage of our gullibility
At the end of World War 2 we had less than 10,000 non white people in the country, going further back in time it would be a lot less than that.

I think for most of our history re we have been a white country, as for getting used to it ...Yugoslavia is still one country isn’t it, India and Pakistan are still one unified country. In rwanda they killed up to a million people in 100 days mainly with machetes, you could look at the various genocides and civil wars even without resource depletion that have radically changed the ethnic and cultural make up of country’s .

It’s not a case of me getting over it , you don’t seem to understand what I’m saying when you have country’s without a clear ethnic majority you have a very unstable situation, and humans have ways of sorting that situation out normally with lots of bloodshed and horror .

I'm not saying this is a good thing its just what I thinks likely to happen

[vtsnowedin]

[I think for most of our history re we have been a white country, as for getting used to it ...Yugoslavia is still one country isn’t it, India and Pakistan are still one unified country. In rwanda they killed up to a million people in 100 days mainly with machetes, you could look at the various genocides and civil wars even without resource depletion that have radically changed the ethnic and cultural make up of country’s .

It’s not a case of me getting over it , you don’t seem to understand what I’m saying when you have country’s without a clear ethnic majority you have a very unstable situation, and humans have ways of sorting that situation out normally with lots of bloodshed and horror .

I'm not saying this is a good thing its just what I thinks likely to happen

Sad to say that I think you are right on that.

[kenneal - lagger]

What no one who is happy about immigration will say is when is enough, enough. Is it when the UK resembles Hong Kong or some time before then?

Even former immigrants are starting to say that enough is enough as the numbers here at a time of high unemployment are leading to unrest and a backlash.

Immigration is basically a capitalist plot to encourage economic growth and keep workers wages down but all the left wingers here seem to support it. A little consistency might be in order.

[woodburner]

Its like listening to members of the dodo tribe go on about over population of birds, and coming up with reasons not to lay eggs for the sake of the planet.

Are you sure you've picked up the right stick?

[Little John]

What no one who is happy about immigration will say is when is enough, enough. Is it when the UK resembles Hong Kong or some time before then?

Yes

Even former immigrants are starting to say that enough is enough as the numbers here at a time of high unemployment are leading to unrest and a backlash.

Yes

Immigration is basically a capitalist plot to encourage economic growth and keep workers wages down but all the left wingers here seem to support it. A little consistency might be in order.

Yes, this is the bit that really does my head in. The left have allowed themselves to be backed into the most ridiculous of corners.

[the_lyniezian]

[I think for most of our history re we have been a white country, as for getting used to it ...Yugoslavia is still one country isn’t it, India and Pakistan are still one unified country. In rwanda they killed up to a million people in 100 days mainly with machetes, you could look at the various genocides and civil wars even without resource depletion that have radically changed the ethnic and cultural make up of country’s .

It’s not a case of me getting over it , you don’t seem to understand what I’m saying when you have country’s without a clear ethnic majority you have a very unstable situation, and humans have ways of sorting that situation out normally with lots of bloodshed and horror .

I'm not saying this is a good thing its just what I thinks likely to happen

Sad to say that I think you are right on that.

The spirit of Enoch Powell lives on...

I personally think it has to do with culture and a sense of community than about how much melanin you have in your skin, personally, though....

[UndercoverElephant]

No...there's a real point here, and it's important. It has taken many centuries of cultural progress for us (the UK and the rest of north-west Europe) to arrive at the stage we are now. It is far from perfect, but it is also a lot more advanced than certain other parts of the world.

There is an over-arching population issue which leads me to advocate near-zero immigration, but quite apart from that there is a problem with certain sorts of people coming here to take advantage of the benefits of our socio-cultural/political system, especially if they also decide they "hate the British." I mean...what??

I agree with Steve. The left has allowed itself to be backed into an absurd corner, and needs to wake up. Flawed as it is, our way of doing things has taken a great deal of time and sacrifice to create. If people from other cultures want to come here, then it is only reasonable that we expect them to buy into our cultural standards rather than rejecting those standards and trying to replace them with their own, which in many cases are, by our standards, barbaric, primitive and mediaevil.

[JavaScriptDonkey]

Do you come to my house to see me or do you come to just get a free meal and a shower?

Just to urinate through your letterbox
Seriously though, of course people come here because they think it's better than what they've got. A lot of the time people risk death or prison to get into the UK, that sounds like they must be pretty desperate.

Populations have always moved about, I'm sure if we all go back far enough we could trace ancestors who were not born in the UK. Maybe you'll have to accept that the UK isn't a whites only christian country any more (or ever was) and just get over it.

Why are you assuming I'm a a white Christian?

Bigoted much?

Large tracts of the planet are disease ridden hell holes where the people have little hope.

We are a small island.

Do the math.

[re]

Hmm, I think I should leave. see ya.

[UndercoverElephant]

Hmm, I think I should leave. see ya.

I hope you don't leave.

[kenneal - lagger]

What no one who is happy about immigration will say is when is enough, enough. Is it when the UK resembles Hong Kong or some time before then?

Yes

That's a bit ambiguous Steve. Are you agreeing that immigration should finish when Britain resembles Hong Kong?

Has re lost the argument? Sounds like it.

Can you blame someone who doesn't want to live next door to people who accept that it is OK to kill your daughter if she marries someone who she loves but that you don't like? There are plenty of Asian people who would be as horrified as us over that culture but there are also plenty of Asian people who would agree with the concept and the action. Do we want people of that persuasion in this country who are going to end up languishing in our jails.

People living in rural India and Pakistan are still living in Medieval times with attitudes to suit. They do not know how to live in a culture where another's religious persuasion has equal validity to their own. Mass immigration from such a culture is a danger to our own culture and is storing up problems for the future as immigrants have a much higher birthrate than current residents.

If we are expecting a crash in the future, as most here accept, we need to limit the population to one that would have a reasonable chance of feeding itself. At current levels there is a body of opinion that says we can still manage that but at higher levels we have a problem. And that would result in tension and fighting and someone with a different skin colour is going to be the likely target. It always has been and probably always will be because they are he most obvious "people who don't belong." Not right but it's what happens.

[Little John]

What no one who is happy about immigration will say is when is enough, enough. Is it when the UK resembles Hong Kong or some time before then?

Yes

That's a bit ambiguous Steve. Are you agreeing that immigration should finish when Britain resembles Hong Kong?....

I am agreeing that people who claim to be happy about immigration are not usually prepared to say when enough is enough. For me, it's a simple number's game primarily. I seriously doubt if we could feed ourselves right now if we were cut off from global food supply chains, never mind if we increase our population further.

Then there is the additional problem of cultural integration. I couldn't give a toss about the colour of someone's skin. However, I am of the view that for cultural integration to work, influxes of immigrants, particularly immigrants who do not share similar a language or cultural practices, need to be measured and of a pace that allows for integration to successfully occur. In the case of the UK, the rate of influx has been far to high, there has been little attempt to motivate or, even, culturally coerce incomers to assimilate and this has led to a dangerous ethnic ghettoization. One where we effectively have ethnic islands living cheek by jowl with one another in some of our cities but where such islands of people may as well be living on different continents for all the communication that takes place between them.

For the historically indigenous communities in such areas, this has become intolerable for them. Imagine growing up in your own country and city, where your main language is English and where all of your cultural practices and reference point are english. But, where you now find that the dominant language, dominant cultural practices and, yes, even the dominant skin colour of your community have all changed beyond recognition. You didn't vote for this, nobody asked you, but it has happened anyway. For such people, England really is another country now as compared to when they were kids. And yet, if they have dared to complain, they have been branded as racist and bigots. And so they have largely kept their mouths shut for fear of the stigma that comes with such labels. All of which has left a political and cultural vacuum that has been all too readily filled by the loony far right.

It's all just too bloody depressing.

[jonny2mad]

Hmm, I think I should leave. see ya.

Why are you leaving?

And its funny how you leave, aurora leaves although he popped back to say hi remember me Ive left, which was nice of him I missed him

I wander off but I don't think Ive ever said this is awful I'm leaving

your a sensitive bunch

[UndercoverElephant]

What no one who is happy about immigration will say is when is enough, enough. Is it when the UK resembles Hong Kong or some time before then?

Yes

That's a bit ambiguous Steve. Are you agreeing that immigration should finish when Britain resembles Hong Kong?

Has re lost the argument? Sounds like it.

Can you blame someone who doesn't want to live next door to people who accept that it is OK to kill your daughter if she marries someone who she loves but that you don't like? There are plenty of Asian people who would be as horrified as us over that culture but there are also plenty of Asian people who would agree with the concept and the action. Do we want people of that persuasion in this country who are going to end up languishing in our jails.

People living in rural India and Pakistan are still living in Medieval times with attitudes to suit. They do not know how to live in a culture where another's religious persuasion has equal validity to their own. Mass immigration from such a culture is a danger to our own culture and is storing up problems for the future as immigrants have a much higher birthrate than current residents.

If we are expecting a crash in the future, as most here accept, we need to limit the population to one that would have a reasonable chance of feeding itself. At current levels there is a body of opinion that says we can still manage that but at higher levels we have a problem. And that would result in tension and fighting and someone with a different skin colour is going to be the likely target. It always has been and probably always will be because they are he most obvious "people who don't belong." Not right but it's what happens.

I think skin colour should be kept out of this. People have no choice over the colour of their skin, and it should have no direct relevance to anybody else. They do have cultural and moral choices, and these do have an impact on the society in which they live.

As soon as you are anyone else says that it is about skin colour, rather than culture and behaviour, then re hasn't lost the argument.

[Little John]

Yes

That's a bit ambiguous Steve. Are you agreeing that immigration should finish when Britain resembles Hong Kong?

Has re lost the argument? Sounds like it.

Can you blame someone who doesn't want to live next door to people who accept that it is OK to kill your daughter if she marries someone who she loves but that you don't like? There are plenty of Asian people who would be as horrified as us over that culture but there are also plenty of Asian people who would agree with the concept and the action. Do we want people of that persuasion in this country who are going to end up languishing in our jails.

People living in rural India and Pakistan are still living in Medieval times with attitudes to suit. They do not know how to live in a culture where another's religious persuasion has equal validity to their own. Mass immigration from such a culture is a danger to our own culture and is storing up problems for the future as immigrants have a much higher birthrate than current residents.

If we are expecting a crash in the future, as most here accept, we need to limit the population to one that would have a reasonable chance of feeding itself. At current levels there is a body of opinion that says we can still manage that but at higher levels we have a problem. And that would result in tension and fighting and someone with a different skin colour is going to be the likely target. It always has been and probably always will be because they are he most obvious "people who don't belong." Not right but it's what happens.

I think skin colour should be kept out of this. People have no choice over the colour of their skin, and it should have no direct relevance to anybody else. They do have cultural and moral choices, and these do have an impact on the society in which they live.

As soon as you are anyone else says that it is about skin colour, rather than culture and behaviour, then re hasn't lost the argument.

Yes, I agree UE. It's pretty bloody daft to get het up about the level of melanin in someone's skin. However, by the constant denial and stigmatization of whole communities' legitimate grievances, our political establishment have pushed some people in those communities into the political arms of those who would have all of us obsess about the colour of someone's skin. This is the tradgedy and scandal of it all.